ZFGC
General => Other Discussion => Boards => Archive => Debates => Topic started by: CoNfUsEd_GaMeR on June 22, 2007, 12:14:24 pm
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What do you guys think of this? It is a very important part of the French way of life, where it is known as la Laïcité, and it's the same in USA right? One form of this principal is no religious symbols are allowed in schools.
In England we've been more tolerant of such things but it seems things are slowly going to change...Do you think the rule of no students being allowed to wear religious symbols on them in state schools is a good one? or what?
some stimulus if you need it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6229098.stm
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Wait.. so if I start a religion which says having pants on is a holy thing they will force me to take off my pants? o_o;
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People are honestly going overboard with this separation thing. When they said "separation of church and state," they meant separation of church and government. It's being blown too far out of proportion.
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Wait.. so if I start a religion which says having pants on is a holy thing they will force me to take off my pants? o_o;
If it involves girls wearing no skirts, I'm all for it :D
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My teacher basically has the killer point, "We should just remove religion from all schools. It's not the governments job to teach children about their or other people's beliefs, it's the parents. If the parent expects the school (government) to do it for them, then they have failed at being a parent, a member of society, and a human being."
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many parents are biased though....they could teach their children anti-semitism for example.
perhaps if they do expect the school to do it for them they are a failure yes, but unfortunately we have a hell of a lot of failures around - we just don't want their growth to be exponential.
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People are honestly going overboard with this separation thing. When they said "separation of church and state," they meant separation of church and government. It's being blown too far out of proportion.
Religion shouldn't really exist at all (even though if it was removed today, new forms of religion without gods would form, such as Nazism), but I also feel very uncomfortable at times as an atheist when teachers say certain things. The best way to solve this problem is to leave religion completely out of schools, and that includes arguments against it.
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People are honestly going overboard with this separation thing. When they said "separation of church and state," they meant separation of church and government. It's being blown too far out of proportion.
Religion shouldn't really exist at all (even though if it was removed today, new forms of religion without gods would form, such as Nazism), but I also feel very uncomfortable at times as an atheist when teachers say certain things. The best way to solve this problem is to leave religion completely out of schools, and that includes arguments against it.
If you were open minded you wouldn't feel uncomfortable.
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I think it would be better if schools didn't make their main focus based on religion but I don't think they should ban it outright. I do think learning about religion is important as it is seemingly such a big part of society but at the same time it irritates me when in a religious education lesson they over promote just one religion over all the rest, I don't want an advert I want to be taught.
Another thing is I think the point made about how parents should be the teachers of religion and the figureheads of the religion, I notice such people who have their faith as it were often lean away from ideas that could lead to doubt and so for me studying philosophy with a teacher who taught from a position of neutrality while teaching was very interesting on all topics and in context to this topic on religion.
So to sum up what I have said I think religion should be taught in schools but without any motive to convert or from any one religions perspective.
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People are honestly going overboard with this separation thing. When they said "separation of church and state," they meant separation of church and government. It's being blown too far out of proportion.
Religion shouldn't really exist at all (even though if it was removed today, new forms of religion without gods would form, such as Nazism), but I also feel very uncomfortable at times as an atheist when teachers say certain things. The best way to solve this problem is to leave religion completely out of schools, and that includes arguments against it.
If you were open minded you wouldn't feel uncomfortable.
I'm open minded to a degree, but I presume that you aren't an ex-Christian, so you wouldn't understand.
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Anyone who is intelligently tolerant(a major backbone of today's society) should understand that they need to ..tolerate it. These are high-school kids, mkay: they won't be impurified due to seeing something 'un-holy'; if they are, than they are either ..quite weak, or they are changing their own religious views ..neither of which should be other people's, or my own, business.
Of course, I don't know for sure just how much this ring deviated from the dress-code. Either they are very skimpy about allowing any additions to the dress code, and it would only be excusable if it was 'necessary'; or their excuse is a bunch of BS, and they are idiots.
I think it would be better if schools didn't make their main focus based on religion but I don't think they should ban it outright. I do think learning about religion is important as it is seemingly such a big part of society but at the same time it irritates me when in a religious education lesson they over promote just one religion over all the rest, I don't want an advert I want to be taught.
Another thing is I think the point made about how parents should be the teachers of religion and the figureheads of the religion, I notice such people who have their faith as it were often lean away from ideas that could lead to doubt and so for me studying philosophy with a teacher who taught from a position of neutrality while teaching was very interesting on all topics and in context to this topic on religion.
So to sum up what I have said I think religion should be taught in schools but without any motive to convert or from any one religions perspective.
true.. being such a large part of society, it is important to learn. To learn the facts, not the teacher's closed point-of-view.. I'm in high-school, and I've been taught quite a bit of general religious history, in general social-studies classes. I too, have a good teacher. Teaching neutrally, but effectively. Not skimping on important facts, but not capitalizing on them either. Fortunately, I suppose nobody around here(my area, not the forum =P) is dumb enough to complain over having their religion mentioned. Religions are an important part of our society's history, and as such, an important part of an education.
I don't prohibit other people's needs/wants for faith, but they should know that there is a world out there.
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Anyone who is intelligently tolerant(a major backbone of today's society) should understand that they need to ..tolerate it. These are high-school kids, mkay: they won't be impurified due to seeing something 'un-holy'; if they are, than they are either ..quite weak, or they are changing their own religious views ..neither of which should be other people's, or my own, business.
Of course, I don't know for sure just how much this ring deviated from the dress-code. Either they are very skimpy about allowing any additions to the dress code, and it would only be excusable if it was 'necessary'; or their excuse is a bunch of BS, and they are idiots.
I think it would be better if schools didn't make their main focus based on religion but I don't think they should ban it outright. I do think learning about religion is important as it is seemingly such a big part of society but at the same time it irritates me when in a religious education lesson they over promote just one religion over all the rest, I don't want an advert I want to be taught.
Another thing is I think the point made about how parents should be the teachers of religion and the figureheads of the religion, I notice such people who have their faith as it were often lean away from ideas that could lead to doubt and so for me studying philosophy with a teacher who taught from a position of neutrality while teaching was very interesting on all topics and in context to this topic on religion.
So to sum up what I have said I think religion should be taught in schools but without any motive to convert or from any one religions perspective.
true.. being such a large part of society, it is important to learn. To learn the facts, not the teacher's closed point-of-view.. I'm in high-school, and I've been taught quite a bit of general religious history, in general social-studies classes. I too, have a good teacher. Teaching neutrally, but effectively. Not skimping on important facts, but not capitalizing on them either. Fortunately, I suppose nobody around here is dumb enough to complain over having their religion mentioned. Religions are an important part of our society's history, and as such, an important part of an education.
I don't prohibit other people's needs/wants for faith, but they should know that there is a world out there.
The problem is that most teachers, being Christian, will give Christianity an unrealistically good appearance. Not to mention that most "facts" regarding Christianity are hard to separate from fiction (though many Christians don't see the need to do so).
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The problem is that most teachers, being Christian, will give Christianity an unrealistically good appearance. Not to mention that most "facts" regarding Christianity are hard to separate from fiction (though many Christians don't see the need to do so).
I know, I don't mind if a teacher references their prayers or something ..when deviating from another topic, etc.etc....
But if you are a teacher, that TEACHES RELIGION, and if you do it with such a closed point-of-view, I fear for the students who can't see through the teacher, and do their own research. I feel that we all should know that there is a world of religions out there; and believing is all you can do, there is no 'magic' religion that's 100% true because that's the only thing that you were taught in school.
I guess my point is that I agree with you, and add that I feel religion is important to learn about. Learn it from a book, see it for what it is - and only what it is. Ideally, I would support teaching religion, with open-minded teachers - who teach anything, and everything, but without bias. Basically ..Benito =D.
oh, and it's difficult for many staunch Christians to separate religious beliefs from fact. But ..eh, it's a tough issue, with no quick answer.
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The problem is that most teachers, being Christian, will give Christianity an unrealistically good appearance. Not to mention that most "facts" regarding Christianity are hard to separate from fiction (though many Christians don't see the need to do so).
I know, I don't mind if a teacher references their prayers or something ..when deviating from another topic, etc.etc....
But if you are a teacher, that TEACHES RELIGION, and if you do it with such a closed point-of-view, I fear for the students who can't see through the teacher, and do their own research. I feel that we all should know that there is a world of religions out there; and believing is all you can do, there is no 'magic' religion that's 100% true because that's the only thing that you were taught in school.
I guess my point is that I agree with you, and add that I feel religion is important to learn about. Learn it from a book, see it for what it is - and only what it is. Ideally, I would support teaching religion, with open-minded teachers - who teach anything, and everything, but without bias. Basically ..Benito =D.
oh, and it's difficult for many staunch Christians to separate religious beliefs from fact. But.. eh, it's a tough problem, with no quick answer.
I firmly think that religion shouldn't exist, so I can't say I support you here. I also think that shouldn't be taught in public schools though for a few reasons, so it would best to leave religion out all together.
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The problem is that most teachers, being Christian, will give Christianity an unrealistically good appearance. Not to mention that most "facts" regarding Christianity are hard to separate from fiction (though many Christians don't see the need to do so).
I know, I don't mind if a teacher references their prayers or something ..when deviating from another topic, etc.etc....
But if you are a teacher, that TEACHES RELIGION, and if you do it with such a closed point-of-view, I fear for the students who can't see through the teacher, and do their own research. I feel that we all should know that there is a world of religions out there; and believing is all you can do, there is no 'magic' religion that's 100% true because that's the only thing that you were taught in school.
I guess my point is that I agree with you, and add that I feel religion is important to learn about. Learn it from a book, see it for what it is - and only what it is. Ideally, I would support teaching religion, with open-minded teachers - who teach anything, and everything, but without bias. Basically ..Benito =D.
oh, and it's difficult for many staunch Christians to separate religious beliefs from fact. But.. eh, it's a tough problem, with no quick answer.
I firmly think that religion shouldn't exist, so I can't say I support you here. I also think that shouldn't be taught in public schools though for a few reasons, so it would best to leave religion out all together.
I think we agree on more than I let out. I support learning about religions strictly for the reason of being knowledgeable about humanity's earlier roots. Also in order to remain ..err, backwards compatible with staunch religious believers.
Basically, religions exist today, and the best way to not let the younger generation get 'brainwashed' by a religion, is to at least show that there isn't just the one religion that they grew up with, and everything else is weird and unrealistic. All religions are as real/unreal as each other.
Basically, I support teaching about religion in public schools, solely because religion already exists.
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The problem is that most teachers, being Christian, will give Christianity an unrealistically good appearance. Not to mention that most "facts" regarding Christianity are hard to separate from fiction (though many Christians don't see the need to do so).
I know, I don't mind if a teacher references their prayers or something ..when deviating from another topic, etc.etc....
But if you are a teacher, that TEACHES RELIGION, and if you do it with such a closed point-of-view, I fear for the students who can't see through the teacher, and do their own research. I feel that we all should know that there is a world of religions out there; and believing is all you can do, there is no 'magic' religion that's 100% true because that's the only thing that you were taught in school.
I guess my point is that I agree with you, and add that I feel religion is important to learn about. Learn it from a book, see it for what it is - and only what it is. Ideally, I would support teaching religion, with open-minded teachers - who teach anything, and everything, but without bias. Basically ..Benito =D.
oh, and it's difficult for many staunch Christians to separate religious beliefs from fact. But.. eh, it's a tough problem, with no quick answer.
I firmly think that religion shouldn't exist, so I can't say I support you here. I also think that shouldn't be taught in public schools though for a few reasons, so it would best to leave religion out all together.
I think we agree on more than I let out. I support learning about religions strictly for the reason of being knowledgeable about humanity's earlier roots. Also in order to remain ..err, backwards compatible with staunch religious believers.
Basically, religions exist today, and the best way to not let the younger generation get 'brainwashed' by a religion, is to at least show that there isn't just the one religion that they grew up with, and everything else is weird and unrealistic. All religions are as real/unreal as each other.
Basically, I support teaching about religion in public schools, solely because religion already exists.
I see. I would be ok with this as long as it didn't favor any of the religions and was strictly factual.