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Author Topic: (WIP) NiGHTS into Dreams: Second Slumber  (Read 10298 times)

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(WIP) NiGHTS into Dreams: Second Slumber
« on: November 24, 2007, 10:02:18 pm »
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First of all, let me introduce myself.

Most folk call me Fozz, i'm 23 and a graduate in computer game design (slightly misleading title, it was mainly games art). I also completed a masters up to dissertation stage (money problems meant I had to drop out). Now I work part time as a website assistant for a local firm whilst I continue to look for work in the games industry as a 3d modeler and texture artist. My portfolio can be found at http://www.monophobia.co.uk

Right, now that's out of the way...

I found this site via a link suggested by Mitsuu (I believe they also post here under the same name) at the nightsintodreams.com forums.

Basically, I am looking for a coder, or several in order to help me with a planned project based around the 1996 Sega Saturn game NiGHTS into Dreams.

Ultimately I would like to recreate the whole of the first level to a playable state, however initially, the aim would likely be a level you could fly around in, maybe collect items, possibly clock the number of laps you have done. Keeping it really simple to begin with in other words.

Sadly I am no coder. The most I've ever managed has been HTML and a bit of VRML, so you understand my problem. I do however have good knowledge of 3d and 2d software, understanding of game engine constraints and I've also got a reasonable amount of sound production experience from my old band being in a studio, and bits I've edited for various uni projects in the past.

So, onto the pretty pictures, cause I know that's what everyone likes to see.

So far the only complete model is NiGHTS himself (I refuse to belive that NiGHTS is a girl, it just doesn't work in my head.... he's an IT at best  :-\ ) He's almost fully rigged as well (still need to tweak the envelopes on his legs).



Also in the works and pretty much ready to texture (I think, I've been doing other things for a while) is the Ideya capture palace:





So there you have it. The reason I've not done anything on this recently is the lack of a coder, and so I can't see the project going anywhere. Once I know there is a chance of something happening Ill throw myself into it, but until then I have other things in the works.

As a start, the needed elements would be:
  - a level and character being loaded
  - analogue stick control (preferably using an xbox 360 controller, if it makes a difference)
  - animation implemented
  - camera aligned to a plane which turns through 3d space (if you dont know what I mean, find some videos of NiGHTS gameplay)
    [obviously the camera needs to follow the character.]

Really hope someone can help out. Either utilising an existing engine or dare I say it, writing one from scratch. Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 02:02:56 am by Monophobe »
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2007, 10:08:17 pm »
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Also, just to say, I realise that the new game is due out soon enough, but this is something I've wanted to do for many many years and only now have the time and skills to go for it. On top of that, it would prove a very nice portfolio piece for myself and anyone else who worked on it.
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Mamoruanime

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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2007, 09:09:49 am »
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Dude, holy !@#$% @ models; thats pretty intense O_O...

Kinda offtopic, but would you mind too terribly if I contacted you in the near future regarding some commercial projects?
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2007, 09:28:29 am »
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Those models are kickass! and I think, making this game in Blitz3d would be a good option.
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2007, 10:34:13 am »
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those models look amazing and if i could help i would. Ill be watching this with intrest.
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2007, 11:36:48 am »
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Dude, holy !@#$% @ models; thats pretty intense O_O...

Kinda offtopic, but would you mind too terribly if I contacted you in the near future regarding some commercial projects?

You can contact me about anything you like regarding projects, though obviously my help would depend on what it was and how much time I would be able to devote to it.

Thanks for the nice comments everyone. Like I said, I'm no coder, so the choice of engine/language would be up to anyone who felt they were up to the task. If you read this and can't help, but know someone who might then please pass info along. I'm eager to get started properly.
---
Keep thinking of things whilst i'm working, but if there are any people skilled in XNA game creation then I'd love to be able to use that and put this onto 360.

Fairly sure I read that it now supports C++ along with C# so I imagine there will be a lot more people capable of using it.

Mod Edit: Please modify your posts instead of double-posting.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 02:15:55 pm by Ricky »
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2007, 07:37:00 pm »
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I'm actually somewhat interested in this, mostly as an XNA developer. I'm just not completely sure on the gameplay and style, as I haven't played NiGHTS before, and I'm not too keen right now on downloading a ROM version. Regardless, if you can show me some samples of how exactly the gameplay goes, then I may be able to help you out here.

However, I dont have an XBOX 360 at the moment, nor do I have a subscription to XNA Creators Club/XBOX Live, so you would need to get XNA GSE (and naturally you'd need the XNA CC/XBL subscription already to download it, so we could probably just use your account to upload it for play.)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 07:38:51 pm by MiNalien »
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2007, 07:55:35 pm »
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Hum, I'm quite intrested in this. I'm rather lacking 3D work on my portfolio, and ideally need to get some done before I apply for any jobs / uni.

Though just like MiN, I haven't played NiGHTS before, only seen a few videos, so I'm rather unsure on the gamplay.
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2007, 09:14:32 pm »
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Sorry about the double posts. I was in a rush earlier.

With regards XNA, I'm not fussed about the 360 side of things, atleast not for a long time yet. Especially as we can just make it run on PC (I'm presuming you can then convert it).

As I say, it would be up to the coder what was used. I've been messing about with Blitz3D today. Basically reusing bits from the samples, but I've had my model "flying about" in place of a plane, changed the camera positioning and altered backgrounds. Probably very simple to you guys, but to me it's all very confusing. Working out now how to just load in an environment model (ie the palace) but its not working so far.

Now that's I've worked a little bit out, I might try starting from scratch so I know exactly which bits of the code I need.

As far as art is concerned, I'm keeping this as my own project so that I'm working on something all the time, and really have something good to show companies along with my current portfolio.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 09:17:25 pm by Monophobe »
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2007, 09:16:33 am »
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Actually, XNA can be used for PC game development as well; and its actually really... really awesome for it too :o... Thats primarily what my staff works with, and I am pleased with the results of everything they've shown me so far ^_^
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2007, 10:19:22 am »
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Being a huge NiGHTS fan, I'm very much interested in this - not that I'll be able to help with the coding unfortunately. :P So I wish you the best of luck.

It would be good to explain how the game works for those who haven't played the original before, because it's deceptively simple, and judging from numerous comments about what they expect from the imminent sequel, people just don't *get* it. I imagine it would be a less daunting prospect if people knew it wasn't a true 3D game, and they wouldn't be trying to simulate 3D flight. It works on a 2D plane, i.e. you fly up and down the screen, scrolling from left to right, but the linear 'path' NiGHTS follows might twist and turn and wrap around the modelled 3D environment. The best explanation I can come up with is to think of the camera as being mounted on the side of a track like you see in athletics TV coverage. :P

One thing I'm curious to see how the hell you're going to pull off is the acrobatics and aerial stunts. Is it documented what control combos do what? I imagine it would be quite difficult to work out all the permutations yourself...

But, really, I would love to see this succeed. XD
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Mamoruanime

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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2007, 10:28:02 am »
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4cki8sY7UA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4cki8sY7UA</a>

Heres a vid of some gameplay; to help kinda go with Mob's description :P

Camera is fixed on a track when flying around and stuff

(granted this is Christmas NiGHTS, but who cares)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 10:29:46 am by Mamoruanime »
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2007, 01:41:45 pm »
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First of all, regarding the description of gameplay:

I had a good chat with God yesterday and he's going to see what he can do for the basic engine and we'll take it from there. In the chat, I showed him a vid and explained each of the aspects within it. I'm on my break at work atm, but when i'm home I'll copy it all to here for folk that aren't entirely sure.

Re the acrobatics:

For now it will simply be the flying, paraloops and speed dash. I won't be looking to implement the acrobatics (controlled with the triggers on the Saturn analogue pad) for now, it all depends how quickly things move on, as that would require a far more complex animation system.

The A-Life system also won't be implemented, nor will you start as one of the kids (Claris and Elliot), you'll just begin as NiGHTS and do what you can within the time limit given.


Basically we're just going to get the core mechanics in place and take it from there as naturally I will have a lot of work on creating assets.

We are going to use C# / XNA so naturally I can now use any of the features of directX9 which makes my life a lot easier, and lends itself to something potentially very pretty.

I'm also setting up a Wiki for those involved as time differences may well make chatting a bit difficult at times (for those who haven't realised i'm in England).

@Mamoruanime: do you mind me asking what it is you do? You've mentioned commercial projects and having staff.


EDIT: oh yeah, and the project finally has a name. NiGHTS into Dreams: Second Slumber


Right, back to my lunch, i'll post again this evening.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 01:43:33 pm by Monophobe »
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Re: NiGHTS First Level Remake
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2007, 09:14:32 pm »
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I know I'm double posting here, but this is a thing of its own. A description of NiGHTS for thems wot don't know :P (taken from a chat log, so if some bits seem to be phrased a bit oddly that's why, though I will edit it to make as much sense as possible)


--------


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSojTIQJ75o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSojTIQJ75o</a>

Right, this one is a great example, and its this level id like to try remake.

You start off as one of the 2 kids in the game. You are basically in their dreamworld
At the start of each dream (level) the ideya are stolen by the Nightmaren (bad guys that fly in, make you go ouch and then appear as enemies in game - think badniks in sonic)

You can control the kid for a little while, but eventually a big egg timer/alarm clock appears, and if it catches you in a beam it shines on the floor then its night over (game over).

So, you enter the Ideya palace that holds NiGHTS and take control of him. Using NiGHTS you can fly around using an analogue stick. You have a time limit of 120 seconds to collect 20 of the blue 'ideya' that are placed around the level. Once you have these, you place them in the capture point (big floaty sphere thing)

If you dont have 20, then it clocks the ones you have and then you go get more. Every time you have flown around a level, i.e done a lap basically, all the items are replaced, so that you can either go get more for the capture point, or if youve already got 20, to just get loads of points. You just have to make sure that you are back at the start point (ideya palace) by the time the timer runs to 0, otherwise NiGHTS vanishes and you are the kid again, and have to walk back, avoiding the aforementioned alarm clock (game over).

Every item you collect gives points and adds to the number of Links you have (combo system basically) as does flying through the loops you'll see everywhere. There is only a very brief time limit to add another link before you are given points for the number you clock up, and the link counter resets to zero.

Pressing one of the controller buttons makes you do a spin dash to speed through the level and you can use this until your meter (bottom left corner) runs out. You refill it by accumulating Links.

Rather than moving NiGHTS onto every single item, you can use the stars he trails behind him to do paraloops and capture every item held within the loop. you can only loop to up to a certain size, otherwise the stars wont connect (stops you just encapsulating the entire level I guess).

(hoping this is all making sense, obviously I know the game well so it does to me)

The most important aspect to begin with, is getting the 2d movement right, within the 3d world. I'm sure the video shows what I mean about it being 2d movement, but the movement plane existing in 3 dimensions; and analogue control is a must. it was one of the reasons NiGHTS was such a pleasure to play.

Obviously NiGHTS needs to orientate towards whichever direction you are pushing in, which to me is a very confusing concept (my small efforts with blitz3d today proved less than impressive, lol)

The game would also benefit greatly from fogging being set at a certain distance from the camera, otherwise I feel it would get very confusing being able to see all the rest of the terrain in the level 'behind you' (and also end up feeling a bit empty as the new NiGHTS game is looking in places)


-------------------


So there we have it. Hopefully that explains some of the concepts to people who don't know this fabulous game.


Some things I've thought of whilst editing through that. The enemies can either be flown into, in which case NiGHTS will grab them, go into a loop around them, and they will disappear; or, NiGHTS can just paraloop them without touching them. A final option is to spin dash them and send them whizzing off into the distance.

In the original, they would eventually land, and if a pian (the little angel creatures) was near them, a new breed could appear. Equally there were these egg items dotted around that NiGHTS could lock onto. Upon releasing them, a pian would hatch. This was all part of the A-Life system, but there's no way I'm aiming to tackle that. For now Pians will just be scenery, and enemies will be enemies. To expand a bit further, for anyone interested, the pians would behave differently depending on how happy they were with NiGHTS (for example, they could sing, or, if NiGHTS had been paralooping all their friends into death, they would be silent). NiGHTS also had a complex music system that I believe utilised the Saturns multiple processors and it would dynamically alter based on the mood of the pians. Again, I have no desire to try and tackle this, cause let's face it, it'd be hard, and i'm an artist, not a sound programmer. Basic music will suffice.



Right, there's a lot to take in there, but I'm trying my best to be as informative as I possibly can be. I hope it's working :)

Finally: Can a Mod please move this to the Indie Projects folder, as I believe this is now making enough progress to warrant it. If not, then ya know, tell me and we'll wait till there is more to show



.....Even more finally:

Enjoy a laugh at the feeble-ness of a clueless artist (that would be me) vandalising sample code in Blitz3D...... thank god some real coders are interested now - I can stop this sillyness.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwBFF6XLksI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwBFF6XLksI</a>
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Re: (WIP) NiGHTS into Dreams: Second Slumber
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2007, 09:53:32 pm »
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if you want to help monophobe with this but don't know a lot about nights, i suggest you play the nights gba score attack which was available through phantasy star online, but there are roms of it too if you have an emulator.  this mini game is most like what monophobe wants i think.
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Re: (WIP) NiGHTS into Dreams: Second Slumber
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2007, 10:29:40 pm »
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if you want to help monophobe with this but don't know a lot about nights, i suggest you play the nights gba score attack which was available through phantasy star online, but there are roms of it too if you have an emulator.  this mini game is most like what monophobe wants i think.

I've just looked at the GBA game on youtube, and whilst it's very cool (never seen it before) I'm looking for something closer to the original. But a link/score attack like this could be a good alpha stage to reach.

I don't know what the rules are regarding piracy on this forum, but I'm not condoning Mitsuu's suggestion that you all run off and download it. There are enough videos to get an idea, and my earlier description should be ample in regards to knowing if you could offer anything to the project. Once we're off the ground flying, then further questions can be asked. I think for now I should wait and see what MiNalien can offer up, and if anyone wants to contact him regarding a joint effort (only serious interest from people with the required coding abilities please) then I'm sure it would be welcomed.
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Re: (WIP) NiGHTS into Dreams: Second Slumber
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2007, 12:26:33 am »
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Awesome stuff. Just like to say that IMO NiGHTs is a female, the eyes are very feminine, although thats just my opinion, I read on wikipedia that NiGHTS is androgynous, which means a lack of a specific gender or to have both male and female traits.

Either way good luck with this :)
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Re: (WIP) NiGHTS into Dreams: Second Slumber
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2007, 12:43:25 am »
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Awesome stuff. Just like to say that IMO NiGHTs is a female, the eyes are very feminine, although thats just my opinion, I read on wikipedia that NiGHTS is androgynous, which means a lack of a specific gender or to have both male and female traits.

Either way good luck with this :)

Ah Wikipedia, the source of all that is usually wrong in the world. And no, you didn't need to explain what androgynous meant, lol.

Still, that's pretty irrelivant. Just my view of him as it's always been over the last 11 years.
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Re: (WIP) NiGHTS into Dreams: Second Slumber
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2007, 02:11:53 am »
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haha some people might not know :)
Hehe you call it "him" and I'll call it "her"....thats both bases covered.
Anywhoo, those models are awesome.....
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Re: (WIP) NiGHTS into Dreams: Second Slumber
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2007, 12:46:04 pm »
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This quite makes me wish I'd of progressed enough with C# and DirectX right now lol
It's quite exciting to see a much more professional like project on here and hopefully we'll be able to keep track of how it'd going on here too ^^

edit: oh you went to teeside?
do you/did you know of anyone by the surname of koria? As a friend of mine at the school I went to (now graduated from it), his brother did/is doing the games design course there :P
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 12:49:58 pm by hawthorneluke »
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