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Author Topic: Burning the flag of the USA in means of protest!  (Read 9832 times)

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Burning the flag of the USA in means of protest!
« on: July 18, 2006, 03:36:46 pm »
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I'm a conservative, and I used to think that: hey if someone wants to burn a flag, it's not going to hurt me any!  Naturally, I had the mindset of a conservative, and thought it all out, and it seemed okay to me.  That is until I actually saw someone burning a flag as means of disrespect in front of American soldiers.

The bill that was defeated in the Senate only prohibits flag burning as means of protest in public and government places.  People can do it on their private property all they want.  I think that we have every right to say that you can't light a flag on fire (FIRE HAZARD!!!) in OUR public areas.  I go burn a US flag in front of a grocery store.  They call the cops and get me out, because (1) fire hazard and (2) bad publicity.. not good for bringing in customers.  So we as a people should have every right to say that we don't want a fire hazard and cruel, rude means of protest out in the open in OUR public areas, and in front of OUR government buildings.

Naturally, if it were up to me, I'd ban flag burning as means of protest in government and public places.  Now that I think about it, it's the most logical solution anyway.

People will say, "but the flag's my property!"

So go burn your own property on: your own property!  Don't burn your property out in the middle of our public places.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 07:01:36 pm by 2awesome4apossum »
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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means or prot...
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2006, 06:19:15 pm »
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Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on July 18, 2006, 03:36:46 pm
I'm a conservative, and I used to think that: hey if someone wants to burn a flag, it's not going to hurt me any!  Naturally, I had the mindset of a conservative, and thought it all out, and it seemed okay to me.  That is until I actually saw someone burning a flag as means of disrespect in front of American soldiers.

The bill that was defeated in the Senate only prohibits flag burning as means of protest in public and government places.  People can do it on their private property all they want.  I think that we have every right to say that you can't light a flag on fire (FIRE HAZARD!!!) in OUR public areas.  I go burn a US flag in front of a grocery store.  They call the cops and get me out, because (1) fire hazard and (2) bad publicity.. not good for bringing in customers.  So we as a people should have every right to say that we don't want a fire hazard and cruel, rude means of protest out in the open in OUR public areas, and in front of OUR government buildings.

Naturally, if it were up to me, I'd ban flag burning as means of protest in government and public places.  Now that I think about it, it's the most logical solution anyway.

People will say, "but the flag's my property!"

So go burn your own property on: your own property!  Don't burn your property out in the middle of our public places.

Actually, i dont see the issue, its the US flag, it represents nothing. Its just a flag, if 1000 union jacks all got burnt in front of the houses of parliament now, id just laugh, it would be funny. Its just a flag, if someone has an issue with burning it its insane. I think the laws against purposely creating bad publicity for shops and burning items in thier land is against it anyway, so really, the law is against it IF it causes damage. I dont see what the issue is.
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  • Elliott Parkinson
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means or prot...
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2006, 06:26:07 pm »
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Um... it represents everything that America is and stands for?
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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means or prot...
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2006, 06:35:03 pm »
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It shouldn't be burned at all in the U.S.  That flag signifies the entirety of the United States.  Without the US those idiots probably wouldn't have the freedoms they have now with the US.
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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2006, 07:02:37 pm »
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It shouldn't be burned at all in the U.S.
Well... we shouldn't intrude on private property for a reason such as flag burning... especially since retiring flags by burning them would remain legal.

But yes, I agree to the fullest.
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tippz
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2006, 07:07:21 pm »
Exactly, it stands for the US therefore it is the perfect thing for protesters to burn to show their dissatisfaction with the US. What's more in reality it is just a piece of cloth so provided the idiot doesn't burn people (the point that it should be stopped) you have a great way to protest.

To me, banning flag burning of any kind (except when it becomes a danger like 2a4a said) is hypocritical. People say the flag stands for the US and our freedoms, well where do our freedoms get us if we can't even burn a flag?
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Limey
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2006, 07:14:53 pm »
Honestly I dont really care, but I'm torn on the issue.  I personally wouldn't burn a flag, and I dont think people should, but no way in hell should we limit peoples freedoms, everybody has a right to burn a flag if they want to.
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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2006, 07:19:57 pm »
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Quote from: -=Limey=- on July 18, 2006, 07:14:53 pm
Honestly I dont really care, but I'm torn on the issue.  I personally wouldn't burn a flag, and I dont think people should, but no way in hell should we limit peoples freedoms, everybody has a right to burn a flag if they want to.
And why should they have the priveledge (and why are you using the word "right")?

And why should they be able to burn a flag on public and government property?  That's stupid: allowing people to do that.

Quote
To me, banning flag burning of any kind (except when it becomes a danger like 2a4a said) is hypocritical. People say the flag stands for the US and our freedoms, well where do our freedoms get us if we can't even burn a flag?
You're acting like it's a right, and something protected under the constitution: it's not.  Just because it's not against the law doesn't mean that it's a right.  It's not freedom of speech.  Sure we have the freedom to protest, but you can't shoot someone in protest.  It's perfectly constitutional to ban it, and it's quite stupid to allow people to burn a flag on government and public property.  It's offensive.

Next step: making my nude walk around the park legal.  MWAHAHA! ;D
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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2006, 07:22:51 pm »
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Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on July 18, 2006, 07:19:57 pm
Quote from: -=Limey=- on July 18, 2006, 07:14:53 pm
Honestly I dont really care, but I'm torn on the issue.  I personally wouldn't burn a flag, and I dont think people should, but no way in hell should we limit peoples freedoms, everybody has a right to burn a flag if they want to.
... and why are you using the word "right"? ...
Right to Freedom of expression?
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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2006, 07:25:22 pm »
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Quote from: Helios on July 18, 2006, 07:22:51 pm
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on July 18, 2006, 07:19:57 pm
Quote from: -=Limey=- on July 18, 2006, 07:14:53 pm
Honestly I dont really care, but I'm torn on the issue.  I personally wouldn't burn a flag, and I dont think people should, but no way in hell should we limit peoples freedoms, everybody has a right to burn a flag if they want to.
... and why are you using the word "right"? ...
Right to Freedom of expression?
* 2awesome4apossum shoots Helios.

I'm expressing my distaste for your comment :)
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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2006, 07:32:14 pm »
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This whole topic is stupid.  People cannot cause harm to others if they are protesting at all, period.  There is no reason to specifically burn flag burning as a means of protest.  People might get hurt?  More often than not, the person who gets hurt is the one who burns the flag, and they are protected to it because a) they are doing it and b) it is their expression. 

Shooting someone infringes on their right to live and that makes it wrong.  It is protest but not normally attempted because protesters want support, and criminally it is prosecutable.  Burning the flag is not the same as shooting someone.  Besides, people often when burning flags do it in an open space and the flag is doused in a flammable catalyst agent so it burns faster and a little brighter.  If people feel the urge to run up to and hug a burning flag, then they are stupid.  If that flag is burning and is swung at someone then that is reckless endangerment or some other offense.  Nevertheless, specifically targeting flags as a means of a ban is ineffective. 
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tippz
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2006, 07:40:32 pm »
When it becomes a danger then you are correct it is no longer freedom of expression. When someone is just burning a flag and no one is engangered then it is their right.

We don't need a specific ban on it anyway. Most places it would be considered a fire hazard and so would be stopped. However, I don't see why that particular piece of fabric deserves any more protection than any other in the US.
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Ben
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2006, 07:48:58 pm »
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I'd just like to point out (without reading most of the topic) how stupid symbolism can get. "I'm burning the flag of America!".... No you aren't, you pratt you're burning the flag that you just paid for. ???
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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2006, 08:11:09 pm »
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You guys are acting like its an issue. Get over it for christs sake, its a flag, a bit of cloth with a pattern on it. It represents NOTHING. Its just a flag, at the end of the day, if some guy wants to buy a flag, and burn it, oh well. I mean realistically, its called FREEDOM OF SPEACH. Its just an expression of views, that does not harm anyone. It really goes against everything your country is supposed to stand for not to let them burn them in protest.
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  • Elliott Parkinson

tippz
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2006, 08:19:30 pm »
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on July 18, 2006, 07:51:12 pm
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When someone is just burning a flag and no one is engangered then it is their right.
It's someone's right to burn a flag in front of a government building?!

* 2awesome4apossum looks at everyone incredulously.

Not specifically, but they shouldn't be prohibited from doing so unless it is endangering other people.

As I said, most places prohibit fires and so the people won't be able to burn it anyway. Just the same as they can't burn their extra pair of pants. However, if there is a place where fires are allowed and someone is able to burn their bed sheet then why can't they burn the flag?

As I said, in a nation of freedoms it is rediculous to probibit the (safe) expression of them.
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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2006, 08:23:29 pm »
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Ok, let me express my terms properly. That flag DOES NOT represent the US. If that flag does, then there is something truely wrong. The people of the US represent it, they are its image, because they are worth more than some crappy logo. Burning the flag does nothing. Its like burning a printed firefox logo, theres millions more out there, and it didnt make firefox go away did it? See my point, the flag is worthless, its materialistic. Its the people, the life, the spirits and the souls of the US that count, try burning that.
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  • Elliott Parkinson
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2006, 08:52:33 pm »
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Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on July 18, 2006, 07:51:12 pm
Next thing I know, and you will all be protesting the law that makes it illegal to protest at a funeral.  I can't believe we even had to pass a law about that... you HAVE to make a law to make people show respect for the dead?  My God...
You think that you would have gotten it by now, seeing as I posted at DSR that I was against them protesting at the soldiers' funerals.  You cannot make a law making people respect the dead, you cannot.  You can make a law that protects the privacy of the victim's family and their right to grieve without people bothering them for their own causes.  The main family who was doing that was the Phelps, and they were mainly doing it out of misguided religious faith to the point were it was hateful.  They were targeting any and all people who fought in the war because they felt that the soldiers were protecting the rights of "!@#$%".  They complained over living in a "!@#$%" nation, said they could not leave the country because it was their home and they could not afford it (even though they traveled around some of the country quite comfortably), and generally acted like dooshbags.  I disagree with their message and I think that they should give other family's a right to privacy, but I do not think that their protest is illegal.  It is immoral, but not illegal. 

I have to agree with what MaJoRa said below, it is too true.

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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2006, 08:57:56 pm »
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The flags represent Morality, If you are out on a battle field there are alot of scary things happening friends dying, getting shot at, and so your moral drops slowly, but seeing a friendly flag flap makes you know your not alone, unless its an enemy flag then your pretty much buggered, but an allie flag will make you know that just because there is nobody in the same trench behind don't mean your gonna die, you have the power of a country and its army behind you, you may die, but others won't. Seeing a British flag burn saddens me and im an !@#$%, but it makes you think the people you have/are/will (be, been) fighting for are not worth fighting for.

I have no idea what the hell i have just typed!!!
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Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2006, 09:08:17 pm »
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Quote from: bertfallen on July 18, 2006, 08:57:56 pm
The flags represent Morality, If you are out on a battle field there are alot of scary things happening friends dying, getting shot at, and so your moral drops slowly, but seeing a friendly flag flap makes you know your not alone, unless its an enemy flag then your pretty much buggered, but an allie flag will make you know that just because there is nobody in the same trench behind don't mean your gonna die, you have the power of a country and its army behind you, you may die, but others won't. Seeing a British flag burn saddens me and im an Arsehole, but it makes you think the people you have/are/will (be, been) fighting for are not worth fighting for.

I have no idea what the hell i have just typed!!!

I believe that does not count, buring a flag of ur country in a war, is way different to a public protest. In the middle of a war i think its wrong, but only because its unfair on those whos morals it boosts. Personally, i would see it demoralising. However, EVEN in this situation, a law would just be plain stupid... as stated above like with the funerals. You dont need a law to prevent plain studpity and disrespect, i think the reactions of people would be the punishment there.
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  • Elliott Parkinson
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2006, 09:10:33 pm »
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You're pretty much not allowed to burn anything but a cigarrette or a cigar in public anyway.
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