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Author Topic: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!  (Read 33680 times)

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To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« on: October 16, 2008, 04:59:46 am »
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I've never been one to get political, especially here on ZFGC, but I think this is too important to stay quiet about...

Prop 8 is a proposition in California that would amend the constitution to overturn the recent rulings that allow for marriages between two men or two women.

If you're living in California, you've likely heard about prop 8. You've seen the nasty ads the "Yes" campaign is throwing on the airwaves. They're out-spending the "no" campaign 2-to-1.

If you vote yes, you'll be supporting a discriminatory and segregationist agenda, and the invasion of government into people's private lives.

Not to mention, if this prop passes, it could set gay marriage back by at LEAST 5 years. California is a very important state, it creates a lead that other states follow.

So please. If you plan on voting, vote NO on prop 8. I'll love you forever. <3

I'm gonna encourage intellegent discussion here. If you plan on voting Yes on prop 8 (or you would if you lived here), please share your reasons why (be civil and MATURE please).
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 03:19:39 pm by Aliento »
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2008, 05:24:25 am »
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2008, 05:51:45 am »
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I do not live in California, I live in Illinois.  I mention this as it will give you the location of where I am in the case that you want to kill me for what I am going to say next.

I do believe that having something that would ban the marriages of gay people would in fact be defining marriage as simply between a man and a woman; a contra-definition which would be serving of an agenda.  What all of this comes down to is: what is marriage?  Why should government give incentive to marriages at all?  From a societal standpoint of decades past, it somewhat kept relationships monogamous.  In more recent times, marriage has become an empty shell of what it once was.  Things like alimony, child support, etc. are bad residue. 

The best thing to be done would be to give benefits to monogamous couples if that would help them out by relieving the costs of things in their lives  From a government standpoint, marriage is only a classification for this, and essentially as long as a civil union and a marriage had the same benefits, then essentially nomenclature doesn't matter.  Marriage over history though has had many odd things; in some countries multiple parter marriages, marrying young children off, etc.  Marriage as an institution is only classification.

Thus I feel that marriage between gay people should be fine and allowed to exist, but people on all sides should quit griping over its name.  Those against gay marriage think that they are being infringed upon and they are playing ignorant over divorce rates amongst themselves as well as other problems with their way of life.  Gay people need to quit shoving it down others throats as "gay marriage", but just "marriage between those of the same gender"; I know it is the same, but "gay marriage" just seems different than "marriage" in name and legally the latter although equivalent is subconsciously more effective from a legal standpoint.

Aliento, some of what you say just seems hyperbolistic in how you feel as if these people are going to storm into your life like fascists.  This gives a bad name to fascists who happen to be smarter.  Nobody really thinks California is a lead though, sure it's big, but really, my state does not hinge on your state's actions.  Meh.  Just look, I get it that you want to be treated equally, as everyone should, but it is hard to treat gay people like everyone else just because they are different.  If two gay men in the future wanted to have a baby of their own and there was some way to create an egg cell out of one of the men, should that child be born?  I do not think it should as that would just be going against physical lines to get to a point of likeness (being like a man and woman) when men and woman were never physically equal.

Gah, but I would vote no.

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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2008, 06:10:28 am »
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4sword, Shefali, I love you both forever <3

Thus I feel that marriage between gay people should be fine and allowed to exist, but people on all sides should quit griping over its name.  Those against gay marriage think that they are being infringed upon and they are playing ignorant over divorce rates amongst themselves as well as other problems with their way of life.

I think the name is important. You could have a "White people fountain" and a "Colored people fountain" that were actually equal (not that they actually were, back in the day), but there's no legitimate reason to keep them separate.

What if black people had settled for "Ok, we'll have seperate water fountains and bus seats, but only if they REALLY ARE equal in quality"? You can't compromise on these issues. Having gay marriage (I refer to it as that and not your longer name for it because it's simply faster to type) can help pave the way for other gay rights, such as protection from hate crimes and descrimination in employment.

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Aliento, some of what you say just seems hyperbolistic in how you feel as if these people are going to storm into your life like fascists.

Oh, I dont really, I'm just a shameless sensationalist. I CAN'T HELP IT I'M A BAD BOY.

Thank you much for your well-written and thoughtful reply 4sword <3
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2008, 06:32:53 am »
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I understand that white fountain and black fountain example you brought up and where you are going with it; essentially you are trying to say that a heterosexual marriage and a homosexual marriage or civil union if clarified by the law as two separate entities with the same rights would run the risk of leading to being unequal later in application.  What I am saying is that the term "marriage" is antiquated and the concept of marriage from a government's standpoint should be between couples irregardless of gender.  In short, for the sake of convenience, marriage for either homosexuals or heterosexuals should be regarded as just "marriage" as the pettiness of nomenclature prevents any real change in its nomenclature.

I had a sentence in my last post that stated if they were equal they should be fine, but my intent in that sentence was lost over revision or adding of other words.  Essentially I was trying to get at if I was in a civil union with a female or if I was gay and in a gay marriage with a man, that I should get the same treatment; they're the same in essence.  Government should only really care over the best way to preserve the rights of all; although all governments have restrictions - I could not marry the sky.  The fountains example was extreme in the sense that there were penalties for a black to drink out of the white fountain; having a gay marriage is not something that could be legally or open socially penalized without repercussion.

Also, the acceptance of gay marriage is not halting change on other gay issues.  It might help, but it isn't stopping.

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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2008, 02:25:45 pm »
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I'll be sure to vote Yes, then. Just because you decided to be one-sided about this, rather than showing every side of the argument.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 02:27:29 pm by Minalien »
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 02:29:25 pm »
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I'll be sure to vote Yes, then. Just because you decided to be one-sided about this, rather than showing every side of the argument.

What other side of the argument?

Voting no is religiously conservative and harms society.

Voting yes only harms the sensibilities of those who need to be more socially liberal and accepting anyway.

It's that simple!
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2008, 03:18:08 pm »
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Voting no is religiously conservative and harms society.

How is being 'religiously conservative' that bad of a thing?

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Instead of pride parades, we'd see a gay riot.
XD
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2008, 03:21:00 pm »
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Voting no is religiously conservative and harms society.

How is being 'religiously conservative' that bad of a thing?

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Instead of pride parades, we'd see a gay riot.
XD

You're kidding, right?

Seperation of church and state, no, none of that?

Okay, let me put it this way: You grew up in a nation with strict islamic law, would you be cool with that? Wouldn't you want your nation to provide you with more freedoms to live your life as you choose, so long as you don't forcibly involve anyone who does not consent?

Exactly the same deal, really.
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 03:34:17 pm »
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Seperation of church and state

...Oh, crap. Forgot that we were talking politics :P. *face palm* Yes, we shouldn't mix religion and politics.

I meant it like, people who are against homosexuality and are 'religiously conservative'.
It's not the government's business, really. Who cares if gays want to marry.

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This is a serious topic. If you're not going to contribute maturely and intelligently, please make your own topic and dont post in this one.
Yeah, I agree man. You should learn to be serious when you have to, Swiftu :P. <3
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2008, 03:49:48 pm »
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As am I. Until the gay community gets their head out of their asses, even if its only a select few doing this, I'm not going out of my way to support them. If I were in California I probably wouldn't vote on Prop 8. A gay protest group called Soulforce is coming to my uni to "combat bigotry at its source--Christianity." How pompous, arrogant, and flat out stupid can you get? They're going around places they know they'll get a reaction so they can cry about it to national media, WITHOUT PERMISSION TO BE THERE, so they can promote gay rights by twisting the truth. Sure, I'd support their group, provided they didn't do it underhandedly like that. As such, it reflects negatively on gays in general, and I refuse to support (or go against) anything that will help out the gay community at this point. G'day.
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2008, 03:52:31 pm »
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I'll support gay marriages when they stop getting !@#$% stupid pointless parades and stop flaunting everywhere that they are gay and enjoy being gay.

You're gay, who cares, big whoop.
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2008, 04:23:15 pm »
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You also get Christians who are going out to combat things like 'child birth' at the source, the testicles, and you get heterosexual female models who flaunt their sexuality everywhere like we actually give a crap about how many dicks they have sucked. You get idiots on all sides of the fence, it's best to just ignore them until the time comes when we can dub me leader of the universe and the mass-exterminations can begin.

Bolded the serious part for extra emphasis. Seriously, ignore the idiots, listen to the smart people, if you won't do that do the human race a favour by removing yourself from not only the gene pool, but existence as a whole.
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 04:27:54 pm »
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You also get Christians who are going out to combat things like 'child birth' at the source, the testicles, and you get heterosexual female models who flaunt their sexuality everywhere like we actually give a crap about how many dicks they have sucked. You get idiots on all sides of the fence, it's best to just ignore them until the time comes when we can dub me leader of the universe and the mass-exterminations can begin.

Bolded the serious part for extra emphasis. Seriously, ignore the idiots, listen to the smart people, if you won't do that do the human race a favour by removing yourself from not only the gene pool, but existence as a whole.

!@#$%...We're in head on competition to rule the world. *Sigh*
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2008, 05:23:31 pm »
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You also get Christians who are going out to combat things like 'child birth' at the source, the testicles, and you get heterosexual female models who flaunt their sexuality everywhere like we actually give a crap about how many dicks they have sucked. You get idiots on all sides of the fence, it's best to just ignore them until the time comes when we can dub me leader of the universe and the mass-exterminations can begin.

Bolded the serious part for extra emphasis. Seriously, ignore the idiots, listen to the smart people, if you won't do that do the human race a favour by removing yourself from not only the gene pool, but existence as a whole.

Newsflash: I understand this. HOWEVER I'm paying $24,000 a year to get an education only to have a bunch of flaming homosexuals from California parade into classes protesting religion. They are infringing on my rights, and they are reflecting badly upon the people they're trying to support. Therefore, I have every reason to say that I'm not going to support gays, because it's not my job to support your rights when I don't feel that strongly about them. Yes, there are idiot Christians who do stupid stuff, and if you choose apathy towards Christianity, its pretty much the same principle. Fortunately, nobody here's stupid enough to take offense to apathy, right?
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2008, 05:28:30 pm »
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You see, this is why my college has a big fence around it, keeps out wild flocks of parading homosexuals and stampeding Jehova's Witnesses.

I tried to get the headmaster to get them electrified so I could lure year seven's into trying to climb over them, but apparently that counts as murder in this craaazy world.
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2008, 05:40:28 pm »
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Where's my straight pride parade?
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2008, 05:54:53 pm »
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Where's my straight pride parade?

When you experience prejudice in all elements of life for your personal preferences that have nothing to do with those being prejudiced against you, THEN you get a pride parade.

Or as Bert said, stop being a lazy DICK and organise your own. Jesus.
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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2008, 06:15:45 pm »
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I would vote no if I could.

In my experiences, gays have done nothing wrong to me (I live in England where gays are cool), and if they want marriage then I dont see why not.

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Re: To all Californians...vote NO on prop 8!
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2008, 07:53:22 pm »
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Where's my straight pride parade?
When you experience prejudice in all elements of life for your personal preferences that have nothing to do with those being prejudiced against you, THEN you get a pride parade.

Quoted for Truth. Straight pride parades make no real sense. How often are you persecuted for being straight Pyro?

Homosexual pornstars are paid more than heterosexual pornstars, I demand equal pay for equal work.
One could argue that since gay sex and straight sex involve different things, they are not actually equal work. I dunno.

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This topic has lost my interest though in that it has devolved into rants of stupidity with no point or wisdom in offering.
Agreed.

Can you people not read? I explicitly stated on two occasions I only want mature, intelligent replies in this topic. And even the moderators are incapable of acting like adults. This is sad. No wonder this forum is dying. There are plenty of other topics for you to go act like asses in.
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