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Author Topic: To The Voters Of California  (Read 10090 times)

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To The Voters Of California
« on: October 20, 2008, 12:05:46 am »
  • Minalien
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Since certain people only like showing and/or listening to one side of every story, I'm here to post the other side of this one.

Proposition 8, titled "Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry," is a proposition to amend the constitution of the State of California that would cause same-sex marriages to no longer be recognized as valid within the State of California, and would prevent further same-sex marriages from occurring in said state.

Many people believe that marriage should be solely a religious issue, and this proposition would be but one step on the path to making it as such. Although there are legal benefits to marriage, these are mostly issues that should relate to a man and a woman, and help with issues such as raising children.

I don't hold myself to a certain religious system, though I do identify myself as a follower of Christ, but I see certain things from a social standpoint as being morally wrong. Yes, a homosexual couple can have children, should they choose to adopt (or, in the case of a female-female relationship, if they should choose the route of getting a sperm donor), but what of the child as he/she is being raised?

I don't want to even begin to fathom the repercussions the kid would suffer for the fact that his/her parents are of the same sex. Abuse from peers, particularly in a school environment, can be very damaging to a child, can harm his/her self-esteem, and is a strong background influence on mental issues the child may face, such as depression.

Although we would like to believe that this is a kind, forgiving, and perfect world, where everybody can be equal, regardless of who their parents are, the fact is that it is not, and the fact is that a strong impression of how a child is will be judged by the child's parents. If a child is raised by two homosexual parents, kids will naturally begin to think that the child is a homosexual, an issue which may actually make a child feel homosexual, due to confusion and a lack of self-esteem and self-pride that would allow that child to otherwise rise up against the insults of his/her peers.

Vote what you will, but here's somewhere to discuss the "yes" side of Proposition 8.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 12:47:10 pm »
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I don't want to even begin to fathom the repercussions the kid would suffer for the fact that his/her parents are of the same sex. Abuse from peers, particularly in a school environment, can be very damaging to a child, can harm his/her self-esteem, and is a strong background influence on mental issues the child may face, such as depression.

Although we would like to believe that this is a kind, forgiving, and perfect world, where everybody can be equal, regardless of who their parents are, the fact is that it is not, and the fact is that a strong impression of how a child is will be judged by the child's parents.
Do you know this for certain? Have you yourself witnessed chiulren being made fun of for their parents? Hell, during my childhood, nobody ever brought up my parents even once, they wouldn't have any way to know about this. Even if they did, so what? Children are assholes anyways. They'll find any reason to make fun of other kids.

In Middle school, I was tormented the entire 3 years because in my 5th grade year book, when it asked "what do you want to be when you grow up?", I wrote "A Pokemon Master!". I was miserable, and wish I never wrote that. But what if I hadn't? They probably would have found some other stupid thing to make fun of me over.

Essentially, you could say the same thing about, say, Muslims raising a child here. A lot of children would make fun of this child and make him miserable. Should Muslims not be allowed to have children in America?

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If a child is raised by two homosexual parents, kids will naturally begin to think that the child is a homosexual, an issue which may actually make a child feel homosexual, due to confusion and a lack of self-esteem and self-pride that would allow that child to otherwise rise up against the insults of his/her peers.

Yeah, that's a load of !@#$%. Naturally, they would likely teach the child positive values such as kindness to others, regardless of differences, and tolerance. There is a chance the child may indeed be homosexual, but that is not increased by having homosexual parents. Just as many homosexuals are born to nasty right-wing bible-thumpers as are to loving tolerant homes.

I'd also say that it's not unreasonable to say that parents who WANT a child would generally make for better parents than those who conceive by accident. Therefore, adoptive parents would, in general, make for better parents. Goodness knows, I wish I had same-sex parents more than the parents I have, who collectively know DICK about child-raising.

Edit: Video:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exPoH1JX0Q8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exPoH1JX0Q8</a>


Also MiN, I keep seeing people asking about "irony" in these topics. May I ask you what they're referring to?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 12:08:37 am by Aliento »
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DJvenom

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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 04:38:37 am »
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I'm voting yes on it simply because I don't think it's right to teach children in school that it's alright for a boy to marry a boy, or a girl to marry a girl. Once it's law it WILL be taught in school too. There are more reasons, but I'm simply not going to go there...
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Mamoruanime

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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 04:43:21 am »
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I'm voting yes on it simply because I don't think it's right to teach children in school that it's alright for a boy to marry a boy, or a girl to marry a girl. Once it's law it WILL be taught in school too. There are more reasons, but I'm simply not going to go there...

This; tho I don't live in Cali.

Once it's legally acceptable, it will be taught. Which sorry, but if you expect people to accept social differences, you need to accept everybody elses right to choose what they do and do not want their kids to be exposed to in public establishments.
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DJvenom

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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 04:56:44 am »
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Also, posting an immature youtube video doesn't really validate anything you've said aliento. Other reasons I'm voting yes on it.

1. It's not NECESSARY. You've been gay for years... why do you HAVE to get married? All this does is simply flaunt it in people's faces even more then you already do with your parades and over all flamboyantness.
2. It's not RIGHT. You are not born gay... There is not a gayness gene. It's a choice... A very wrong one (in my eyes at least...) <-- Also, don't !@#$% flame me for this... I have a right to my own opinions, !@#$%!
3. It's a BASTARIZATION. Call me a bible thumper if you want, when I never go to church, or read the bible... I know what's right, and I know what's wrong. I personally have nothing against gay people, but I think that legalizing a bastardization of the sanctity of marriage is a step in the WRONG way... But I guess this is unavoidable in the last days of existence.

I'm fucken voting Yes. That is all...
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 05:11:04 am »
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1. It's not NECESSARY. You've been gay for years... why do you HAVE to get married? All this does is simply flaunt it in people's faces even more then you already do with your parades and over all flamboyantness.
You're straight.  You have been for years... why do you HAVE to get married?  All this does is simply flaunts it in people's faces even more than you already have been for the entire history of exclusively straight marriage.

2. It's not RIGHT. You are not born gay... There is not a gayness gene. It's a choice... A very wrong one (in my eyes at least...) <-- Also, don't !@#$% flame me for this... I have a right to my own opinions, !@#$%!
Some people are born with a predisposition towards being gay.  That's a fact.  I'm not going to say anything more than that.

3. It's a BASTARIZATION. Call me a bible thumper if you want, when I never go to church, or read the bible... I know what's right, and I know what's wrong. I personally have nothing against gay people, but I think that legalizing a bastardization of the sanctity of marriage is a step in the WRONG way... But I guess this is unavoidable in the last days of existence.
I wish you had put another "in my eyes at least" in here.  "I know what's right, and I know what's wrong" is an entirely false statement.  You don't know what's right or wrong.  You are not the judge of the world.  You do know what you feel is right or wrong.  Since you feel it's wrong, you should vote Yes, but I felt the distinction between fact and opinion was important to make clear.

Not that it matters, but I should add that I am straight, just so we're not confused about my agenda.  I just don't see how someone can logically conclude that the state has any right to decide the fate of same-sex marriage.
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 05:39:49 am »
  • 虫めづる姫君
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Minalien, what the hell does anything in your post have to do with why same-sex couples shouldn't get the same legal rights as opposite sex couples?  Allowing or disallowing same-sex couples to marry has nothing to do with whether or not they can adopt or raise children.


Also, addressing everyone: all this right-or-wrong business is !@#$%—Do you think it's right that you can tell other people how to live their lives?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 05:43:26 am by Shefali »
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Mamoruanime

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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 05:43:17 am »
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Isn't the point of voting to begin with to let people use their opinions/moral convictions/decision making skills to determine if they want something to be (or not be)? >_>;; Honestly I think all going back and forth over it does is make people feel stronger AGAINST the thing people fight hard to get put into place.

I don't think trying to push people into voting a certain way works. It's really up to YOU; the voter to decide what YOU in YOUR own mind is right or wrong.
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 06:35:44 am »
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I don't think trying to push people into voting a certain way works. It's really up to YOU; the voter to decide what YOU in YOUR own mind is right or wrong.
Like I said, DJ (and by that I meant everyone) should vote how he wants.  I just wanted to put forth the comment that he shouldn't say he's right and leave it at that.
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DJvenom

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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2008, 06:39:17 am »
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FYI, I did mean all what I posted in my eyes. Obviously I don't know what's TRULY right, and wrong...
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 03:24:03 pm »
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If you vote 'Yes' you hate gays.

It's a fact.
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 10:27:34 pm »
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Also, addressing everyone, STFU NOOB
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2008, 12:58:09 am »
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Once it's law it WILL be taught in school too.
Uh, what? Since when are morals of any type taught in school? There is no "RIGHT AND WRONGS 101" in public high schools. Schools teach facts.

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FYI, I did mean all what I posted in my eyes. Obviously I don't know what's TRULY right, and wrong...
Well, there is nothing that's actually right or actually wrong. It's all a matter of perspective :P.
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2008, 01:01:03 am »
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Also, addressing everyone, STFU NOOB

NO U
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2008, 07:16:43 am »
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Once it's law it WILL be taught in school too.
Uh, what? Since when are morals of any type taught in school? There is no "RIGHT AND WRONGS 101" in public high schools. Schools teach facts.
Have you ever attended a public high school? Tell my grade 9 social studies teacher who said "Republicans are very bad people" (I'm not even from the States) that High Schools teach only fact.
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2008, 02:56:46 pm »
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Once it's law it WILL be taught in school too.
Uh, what? Since when are morals of any type taught in school? There is no "RIGHT AND WRONGS 101" in public high schools. Schools teach facts.
Good god you're naiive. There's half-truths and lies all over the place in our education. All information given is inherently biased to some extent, as everyone has an opinion on everything.
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2008, 03:56:00 pm »
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1. It's not NECESSARY. You've been gay for years... why do you HAVE to get married? All this does is simply flaunt it in people's faces even more then you already do with your parades and over all flamboyantness.
You're straight.  You have been for years... why do you HAVE to get married?  All this does is simply flaunts it in people's faces even more than you already have been for the entire history of exclusively straight marriage.

2. It's not RIGHT. You are not born gay... There is not a gayness gene. It's a choice... A very wrong one (in my eyes at least...) <-- Also, don't !@#$% flame me for this... I have a right to my own opinions, !@#$%!
Some people are born with a predisposition towards being gay.  That's a fact.  I'm not going to say anything more than that.

3. It's a BASTARIZATION. Call me a bible thumper if you want, when I never go to church, or read the bible... I know what's right, and I know what's wrong. I personally have nothing against gay people, but I think that legalizing a bastardization of the sanctity of marriage is a step in the WRONG way... But I guess this is unavoidable in the last days of existence.
I wish you had put another "in my eyes at least" in here.  "I know what's right, and I know what's wrong" is an entirely false statement.  You don't know what's right or wrong.  You are not the judge of the world.  You do know what you feel is right or wrong.  Since you feel it's wrong, you should vote Yes, but I felt the distinction between fact and opinion was important to make clear.

Not that it matters, but I should add that I am straight, just so we're not confused about my agenda.  I just don't see how someone can logically conclude that the state has any right to decide the fate of same-sex marriage.

This.
And one, clear point I would like to make DJ. Homosexuality is not a choice. There are people who commit suicide because they do not want to be homosexual, yet they are and they can never change that. It's harder and more complex than a simple choice. Do you think people in pre-modern times chose to be gay, which then resulted in death back then? Do you think people chose to be gay, even though they knew they would be imprisoned or tortured? (which was what happened after death was no longer a punishment for homosexuality, when I say torture I mean when they tried to "cure" homosexual people)
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2008, 04:03:02 pm »
  • Fight the Power
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There are people who commit suicide because they do not want to be homosexual, yet they are and they can never change that.
Once again, I don't agree. They probably suicide because the society doesn't accept them as much as they'd want to. You can't know what goes through their mind, though...
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2008, 04:06:45 pm »
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There are people who commit suicide because they do not want to be homosexual, yet they are and they can never change that.
Once again, I don't agree. They probably suicide because the society doesn't accept them as much as they'd want to. You can't know what goes through their mind, though...

Of course, you cant tell what goes through anybody's mind. And therefore you cant say it is a choice to be homosexual. You cant see into their mind and see a choice being made.
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Re: To The Voters Of California
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2008, 04:11:28 pm »
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Then our two argument's are not valid.  ;)
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