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Author Topic: Post Reports  (Read 5621 times)

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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Post Reports
« on: July 07, 2008, 07:13:32 am »
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As of late we've had quite the surge of post reports, and while some of them are valid, there are a ton that are... well, a bit nitpicky, and not really issues that require reporting. It's becoming bothersome to look at the reports section with this clutter, and 4 out of every 5 reports are marked solved without any action required.

So, I think it's only fair to make an announcement.

Before reporting a thread, consider specific factors, including but not limited to-
  • How new the user is (Is it their 4th post? Politely mention etiquette, and contribute to their post in the best way possible.)
  • How far does the user and or post bend the rules? (Size limit 128x128 and the avatar is 140x140? Ignore it please.)
  • Is the user a habitual rule breaker? (Sometimes, they know what they're doing is not breaking the rules, and the reporter is in fact not knowledgeable of the rules.)
  • Use common sense. (I have nothing to put in this part, its obvious.)

If the report is of utmost urgency, then please by all means report something; but for frivolous things, it's not that big of a deal.
Sometimes an avatar or sig that's "too big" is alright. Sometimes a grave dig is FINE (as long as it contributes to the discussion in some way), and sometimes there's absolutely nothing wrong with a double post. Just remember to use common sense when reporting things, and try not to be a rent-a-modding rule nazi to users :P We'll handle the enforcing if necessary.



« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 04:03:37 am by 4Sword »
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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 07:32:40 am »
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This doesn't concern me, I don't report people! :D

But I can understand why people would report others (and I do see who the 4th post guy is) and are we allowed to report spam posts if they break the rules? :P
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Post Reports
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 07:36:45 am »
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This doesn't concern me, I don't report people! :D

But I can understand why people would report others (and I do see who the 4th post guy is) and are we allowed to report spam posts if they break the rules? :P

Well yeah, within reason.

But before reporting it; just peek at the rules and just kinda see where it fits; if it's a major thing (posting porn) report it immediately, but things like avatar sizes, sig sizes, blegh that sorta stuff dont worry about it unless it's well over the limit (I'd say 20% over the size limit, report it)
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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 07:41:56 am »
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This doesn't concern me, I don't report people! :D

But I can understand why people would report others (and I do see who the 4th post guy is) and are we allowed to report spam posts if they break the rules? :P

Well yeah, within reason.

But before reporting it; just peek at the rules and just kinda see where it fits; if it's a major thing (posting porn) report it immediately, but things like avatar sizes, sig sizes, blegh that sorta stuff dont worry about it unless it's well over the limit (I'd say 20% over the size limit, report it)
What if it's spam in spam board? Should I report it?
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Post Reports
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2008, 07:51:05 am »
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This doesn't concern me, I don't report people! :D

But I can understand why people would report others (and I do see who the 4th post guy is) and are we allowed to report spam posts if they break the rules? :P

Well yeah, within reason.

But before reporting it; just peek at the rules and just kinda see where it fits; if it's a major thing (posting porn) report it immediately, but things like avatar sizes, sig sizes, blegh that sorta stuff dont worry about it unless it's well over the limit (I'd say 20% over the size limit, report it)
What if it's spam in spam board? Should I report it?

... No.

Your post here is spam though <_<; So please don't post unless you actually have something to contribute to this discussion o.0 *formal warning'd*
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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2008, 08:18:02 am »
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The avatar and signature rules can only be enforced effectively if violations of them are reported.  This is because current moderation is not too observant of them.  Reports that are made immediately by users near the time of the violation will be sometimes made even with moderators online.  This is because moderation in various cases is slow to act on even the most basic of violations.  If a user politely mentions etiquette to a new user, that user is reported for rent-a-modding and your issue with reports is the same had the original user just decided to report the issue.  However, it can be assumed that if etiquette is posted for the new user to see, it might lessen the overall number of reports for the same issue.

The moderation and administration should be grateful that avatar and signature violations are reported because it will accurately show them how much of a problem it is on the forum itself.  I would suggest rather than calling it wrong to report such things that the staff would otherwise not see, the rules for signature and avatar sizes could be amended.  In fact, there is a topic in Feedback about it that was not addressed.  Also, in regard to avatars specifically, the size limitation could be altered due to the new way in which the profile side bar is set up.  This makes the available space for an avatar defaultly greater and less likely to stretch any tables.

I should also mention that if there is "clutter" in the post report feed.  If these topics are easy to solve, then they are easy to solve and are not really problems.  Sometimes a post is reported, a moderator does not see the report because they are lurking the boards, that moderator finally arrives to the reported post and then solves it in the topic and then solves the topic in the post report feed without giving a full answer as to how they solved it because they said enough in the topic with the reported post.  I find it hard to believe that this is a problem at all though considering the amount of moderators active.

Oh, and considering that last post spam was a little much in that according the community rules and regulations, spam is not to be tolerated.  While it is common sense, I assume that Vandavil was making a sarcastic, valid point.
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Post Reports
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 08:46:16 am »
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The avatar and signature rules can only be enforced effectively if violations of them are reported.  This is because current moderation is not too observant of them.

It's not a matter of enforcing them effectively, it's a matter of being "too stingy of numbers someone came up with off the top of their head". A few pixels or a few kb aren't going to kill someone, and it is definitely not ban worthy.

As for this being because the "current moderation is not too observant of them"; they are very observant, and they see them. However, they understand that sometimes there are more important things to worry about than someone having a signature that's 16 pixels too tall.

Reports that are made immediately by users near the time of the violation will be sometimes made even with moderators online.  This is because moderation in various cases is slow to act on even the most basic of violations.  If a user politely mentions etiquette to a new user, that user is reported for rent-a-modding and your issue with reports is the same had the original user just decided to report the issue.

To the first sentence; duh? Moderators cannot see every thread. And if its near the time of violation, its bound to occur. As for the second part. The staff does a good job. They have lives, and sometimes they have more important things to do then sift through every single thread at every moment they're logged on. Most people on this forum leave themselves logged on while they're doing things in real life. We cannot expect the staff to be here every little second they're logged on.

As for rent-a-modding reports. *looks*. Nope, not a single one. Sorry, that's not the case.

The moderation and administration should be grateful that avatar and signature violations are reported because it will accurately show them how much of a problem it is on the forum itself.  I would suggest rather than calling it wrong to report such things that the staff would otherwise not see, the rules for signature and avatar sizes could be amended.  In fact, there is a topic in Feedback about it that was not addressed.  Also, in regard to avatars specifically, the size limitation could be altered due to the new way in which the profile side bar is set up.  This makes the available space for an avatar defaultly greater and less likely to stretch any tables.

The moderation and administration staff is grateful for signature and avatar reports; if they're reasonable. Again, most of the reports are not. If they're stretching the forum, yes report them. Again, *magic numbers* made up for signature and avatar sizes. They're not law, they're guidelines. I see no problem with something being 32 pixels over the size limit. Which brings me to the next point, the thread in feedback is due to some recent modifications on the board. Has nothing to do with the issue of oversized signatures or avatars. It's a scripting issue.

We're modifying the rules on *everything* on the board, and we'll have them posted when we feel they're ready (more or less waiting for 2.0, but we'll see what happens)

I should also mention that if there is "clutter" in the post report feed.  If these topics are easy to solve, then they are easy to solve and are not really problems.  Sometimes a post is reported, a moderator does not see the report because they are lurking the boards, that moderator finally arrives to the reported post and then solves it in the topic and then solves the topic in the post report feed without giving a full answer as to how they solved it because they said enough in the topic with the reported post.  I find it hard to believe that this is a problem at all though considering the amount of moderators active.

The "clutter" only slows moderators down from getting to the valid reports. Again, most of the staff have lives outside of ZFGC, and are not here every waking moment. They cannot be expected to sift through 100 frivolous reports just to find 1 serious one. Also, its a moderators job to lurk amongst the boards. They find more issues that way then they do from the post report feed currently simply because of that clutter. You have no clue how many unreported issues I find just lurking. It's depressing to see serious issues out in the boards with no reports, and a crapload of nonserious issues with reports. Also, again *stares at post report feed* Solved ones have an explanation as to why and how they were solved. Although, again, most of the solved reports have posts that consist of "...There is nothing wrong with this at all.".

Oh, and considering that last post spam was a little much in that according the community rules and regulations, spam is not to be tolerated.  While it is common sense, I assume that Vandavil was making a sarcastic, valid point.

No it was blatant spam. The only point to be made by that is "I should be warned". Which was the result.



I hate to be an ass about it 4Sword, but honestly, you're far too condescending to the staff; and frankly, you have no clue what goes on anymore behind that curtain. Things have changed. Theres no point in acting like a pharisee, persecuting people for the littlest infractions of the law. Some things just *aren't that big of a deal*, and the staff will not partake in being overly strict in areas they should not be just to appease people who make frivolous reports. There are things that call for that sort of action, and things that do not. ZFGC staff has a lot more to worry about than signatures and avatars. In fact, I would have an issue with having a staff that focuses on that as if it were the worst thing in the world. I'd rather they got to fixing the bigger issues on the boards (the amount of rudeness/flaming from users, trolling, etc) than focusing primarily on stupid issues that *do not affect the community as a whole*.

 
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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2008, 06:21:35 pm »
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I have to say that you have no current basis for my supposed condescention towards staff. Whenever I post, I try to speak as intelligently as I can for the benefit of those reading.  If this comes off as standing above someone with my intelligence, then I am sorry that I am smart and that was not my intention.  Whenever I make a report, I provide relevant information with each report so that it can be handled in an easy manner.  I find it condescending towards me to implicate that I have no life.  I just happen to be near a computer most of my day because most of my friends moved out of state to go to their universities and I converse with them through the Internet and my Asperger's Syndrome makes it so socializing through the Internet is easier to do.

My last post alluded to a topic in Feedback made by Hoffy about avatar and signature sizes, not specifically the work done by Infini to make the user information simpler in the profile sidebar.  I was suggesting that if it was alright for avatars to at least be over the size limit then because the new sidebar specifically created a feeling of more horizontal space, it could be considered to just increase the size of the limit arbitrarily.  I do not think that the current limit was picked so willy-nilly out-of-the-blue.  However, if you think that number is too much of that, then I do not see how updating it now that new circumstances exist would be much of an issue.  In fact, it makes sense to increment it as there are users here who just do not care anyway and many of them are going above the number.

As for what I do not know, I was basing part of my information on what you said in your last post that some of the topics are just solved; to me, it sounded like nothing was posted in them by your account.  Also, I would appreciate it if the way I act was not generalized into a trend of negativity as that is a falsehood; for example, in most if not all of my PMs to you and other administrators during the Brawl tournament either included a please, thank you, or both.  Sure, I point out the little things sometimes, but I figure that the moderation is not noticing them nor do they have the time to deal with looking for them in particular.  It is a little much to criticize me for doing some of the work of moderation.  I apologize for being fast and harsh if I am like that.  Many people make the mistake of reading into my words too much rather than seeing them as they simply are.
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Post Reports
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2008, 07:01:01 am »
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I have to say that you have no current basis for my supposed condescention towards staff. Whenever I post, I try to speak as intelligently as I can for the benefit of those reading.  If this comes off as standing above someone with my intelligence, then I am sorry that I am smart and that was not my intention. 

You know exactly what you are doing. Although I've never heard someone use that as an excuse for subtle trolling. Typically someone who speaks intelligently knows what they're saying, and how it comes off. I don't believe for a second you are unaware of how your vague, self-derived anti-staff posts sound to people. I understand that it may be irritating to you that things are being handled different with management, but constantly picking out flaws will not help the issue, and it's only causing resentment and tension. Everyone's entitled to their thoughts and views on things obviously.

However.

As a part of the general management administration team, which sets the standards for "good reports" and "bad reports"; I'm saying. A report for an avatar that is some kb over the limit is not a good report. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp, especially for someone as intelligent as you (and no I'm not being sarcastic right there.)

I find it condescending towards me to implicate that I have no life.  I just happen to be near a computer most of my day because most of my friends moved out of state to go to their universities and I converse with them through the Internet and my Asperger's Syndrome makes it so socializing through the Internet is easier to do.

I have social anxiety disorder, manic depression (which is all part of the same scope of diseases), and I generally dislike people, however I deal with it and refuse to use it as an excuse for the way I act. Part of overcoming your ailments is not using them as a determining factor for your actions. Sorry if that comes off harsh, but I do not personally see using a disease as a crutch a valid excuse.

My last post alluded to a topic in Feedback made by Hoffy about avatar and signature sizes, not specifically the work done by Infini to make the user information simpler in the profile sidebar.  I was suggesting that if it was alright for avatars to at least be over the size limit then because the new sidebar specifically created a feeling of more horizontal space, it could be considered to just increase the size of the limit arbitrarily.

My mistake, I was thinking it was part of the string of modifications done to the board; I know one of the issues was the forum stretching. Although initially without modification SMF utilized scrollbars for oversized avatars. Perhaps that could be utilized on here as well. It's tacky, but it's also incentive to keep things smaller.

I do not think that the current limit was picked so willy-nilly out-of-the-blue.  However, if you think that number is too much of that, then I do not see how updating it now that new circumstances exist would be much of an issue.  In fact, it makes sense to increment it as there are users here who just do not care anyway and many of them are going above the number.

No, they are *magic numbers*. It's not something that is so serious that it could make or break the forum, offend users, etc. It's something set by staff as a guideline, because people like to have avatars and signatures that horribly disfigure the layout. An avatar that is 128x128 could potentially disfigure the layout under the right circumstances. They're numbers that are meant to be able to change over time or under the right circumstances. Not everything can be set in stone.

As for what I do not know, I was basing part of my information on what you said in your last post that some of the topics are just solved; to me, it sounded like nothing was posted in them by your account.  Also, I would appreciate it if the way I act was not generalized into a trend of negativity as that is a falsehood; for example, in most if not all of my PMs to you and other administrators during the Brawl tournament either included a please, thank you, or both.  Sure, I point out the little things sometimes, but I figure that the moderation is not noticing them nor do they have the time to deal with looking for them in particular.  It is a little much to criticize me for doing some of the work of moderation.  I apologize for being fast and harsh if I am like that.  Many people make the mistake of reading into my words too much rather than seeing them as they simply are.

The one's that are "just solved" do not need action on the reported post; most typically the post in the thread before solving the report involves "There's nothing wrong with this."

Also, your PM's are very polite. There's a definite difference between the way you post regarding decisions made by administration, and the posts you make for anything else. Moderation notices a lot more than they're given credit for :P
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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2008, 07:48:46 am »
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In terms of the "magic number" set as a guideline, just as you said, it is not set in stone and that is why I was suggesting increasing the number itself so that there would be no question of if it disfigures the layout.  While on the forum today I saw an avatar that was 150 x 150 pixels and while the outer part of the image was transparent, it did not seem to be stretching the layout significantly at all; the height is also something that does not stretch the layout as the post sizes themselves do.  Look at my avatar, for example, it is 128 x 128 pixels and it has available space the right of itself.

An increase of 22 pixels horizontally for the limit would make it so it would be clear that anything over that limit would be a breach of the rule and considering that many images were reported for being over the set limit themselves, resetting the limit in response to an acceptable trend would not be frivolous.  The scroll bars would work too.  So, what I am saying is that this might be the new circumstances for such change, such change would not be a bad thing, and such change would make it so avatars themselves would not have to be examined as to whether or not they were alright if they were over the limit; this actually makes it easier to deal with.  I know it is not a significant issue that could make or break the forum, but it is disingenuous to say that little things when added up do not amount to something that matters.

To quickly address things said about me, Asperger's is odd in that it is something difficult to deal with and yet it is useful; ironic, I know.  In context though, I was not suggesting it as a crutch so much as I was using it as a reason for being here.  Also, not everything I say about the administration is bad, I am just bothered when I feel like when I make a legitimate point with backing that it is passed over as if I put no thought into it at all.  Picking out flaws is not done by me to capitalize on their existence, but rather I view doing that as a means to make things better.  As for good and bad reports, most of the ones I make are good ones and the other ones were made before you posted this topic and after Theforeshadower made a topic about it not being enforced.  Maybe I would feel a little less pressure if I did not feel I was being judged for only my past actions deemed to be negative.


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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2008, 08:25:01 am »
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I think that any avatar size that distorts post size would be a violation, right? Also, sorry, I know it's my fault you posted this. V_V
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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2008, 08:37:10 am »
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I think that any avatar size that distorts post size would be a violation, right? Also, sorry, I know it's my fault you posted this. V_V
I think that the width of the profile sidebar is determined by the width of the largest avatar on the page, either that, or it is a set number.  However, the height of your post is determined either by the amount of the text in the post, an image's size, or the total size of your profile sidebar as influenced by your avatar height.  Thus your avatar size distorted your post size technically.  I never really noticed this because my posts were always large.  I am pretty sure that I was the straw that broke the camel's back though as I made reports about avatars and signatures whenever I saw them and this topic was made shortly after I made a report on one; of course this is just plausible speculation on my part.
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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2008, 05:32:02 pm »
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I think the intent of this topic was this:

Please don't report things that we see as insignificant and inconsiderate unless it blatantly breaks the rules or is out of place.

IF you have to right click a signature or avatar and take the time to add up it's file size or calculate how much it breaks the signature/avatar sets, you're spending too much time focusing on something that is not your business as a user. There are rules regarding 'rent-a-mod'ing, this will *now* be considered rent-a-modding, because we're getting far too many insignificant reports, when other things are going unheard or unnoticed due to a flood of signature/avatar matters that just don't matter 70% of the time.

This is *NOT* just an administrator gripe, this is a moderator gripe. Keep in mind moderators often are the only ones doing post reports, unless administrative discussion is required, thus strongly involving their consideration as well.

There's nothing to debate over here, it's cut clean and simple, it's what *we* want. We're happy to discuss things, but there isn't much to discuss here, nor is it really that debatable, so I'm unsure of what 4Sword and Mammy are debating about, since this topic is rather cut and dry to me.
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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2008, 06:05:02 pm »
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It is not hard to do the math in your head, you are making it sound like it is something of a drawn out process.  I can understand that there would be a lot of reports for signature and avatar sizes due to them not being limited to a single post, but as a user of the community it bothers me when someone's avatar is too big and I feel as if nothing is being done about it.  If more serious things are getting overlooked and assuming that the report system is the same as it was until SMF 2.0 comes out, unsolved reports are placed under solved ones.  I can assume that the report is either left unsolved or is solved and then similar reports are made for other posts.  That would be flood-like, but still not so bad. 

I was suggesting that rather than penalizing users for giving a damn, that you could increase the horizontal size limit of avatars at least so that there would not be so many people breaking the limitations.  If a significant number of users are breaking those limits, then I was saying it would be proactive to increase the limit especially considering that with the profile sidebar, there is more horizontal space.  I was addressing the reason you were getting so many reports.  Maybe the issue was not that you were getting so many reports, maybe it was your policy of dealing with how the user's avatar and signature are dealt with.  For example, if you just took them down if they were excessive rather than wait, as long as you let the user know, then everything should be alright.

I thought I would add this for clarity as the bulk part of my post gets overlooked by many, here is what I am saying summarized into a bullet list:
- Enough users are going above the size limit regulation and this is deemed to be acceptable.
- As such, increasing the limit could be considered.
- Rather than having a guideline, I am suggesting considering the limit as an absolute maximum.
- There is more horizontal space due to the profile sidebar.
- If an avatar or signature exceeds the absolute maximum, it could be taken down as soon as it was found.
- If everything I said above was done, there would be fewer reports, users could still help out, and the reports that remain would be easy to solve.

I even whipped up a visual representation with a key to illustrate what I am talking about:
128 x 128 (Guideline)

150 x 149 (Over Guideline)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 06:55:53 pm by 4Sword »
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Post Reports
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2008, 11:28:01 pm »
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I'm thinking this is lockworthy; mainly because Andrew laid it out pretty simply >_<;; It's not debatable. It's an announcement, not an open debate.
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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2008, 03:27:36 am »
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4Sword: Suggestions are for the feedback section. This topic is for informational purposes, stating policy regarding a specific matter.
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Post Reports
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2008, 11:22:30 am »
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Post Reports
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2008, 10:08:14 am »
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Well needed *BUMMMPPPP*

People are still doing this.

The report system is not for nitpicking. It is for issues that need immediate attention.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 10:10:23 am by Mamoruanime »
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DJvenom

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Re: Post Reports
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2008, 01:44:54 am »
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Also stop reporting posts people you don't like make in an attempt to get them in trouble. God damn.
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