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[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

@ Max,

But I am still opposed to making them status enhancing, or giving you abilities. Like, how will a gear in my pocket let me climb this cliff, or swim?

The same way that wearing a shiny bracelet makes you 4x stronger? Or wearing a blue shirt lets you breath underwater, or a one-was-a-tiny-person-turned-into-a-hat can make you shrink, a rock in your forehead lets you turn into a wolf, people can be turned into talking boats, or Ganondorf can die about 8 times, and be the same Ganondorf. If you take a look at a great deal of the items in the Zelda series, Power Bracelets, Tunics, etc, even things like Heart Pieces, they don't really make sense. I mean, I just picked up a giant sparkly heart shaped thing, now I can get stabbed one more time before I die... like whut?
Anyways, my point was mainly that having the cogs might be useful in that regard, giving link a new ability, as the alternative, if you wanted to stick to the spinner, would probably end up being "I can jump while on spinner" "I can move rocks with spinner" etc. Consider them buffed up sword skills. In many games, you need the sword skills to get through, not out of lack of skill, but of quest importance. MC and TP are two examples. These aren't really "Status Buffs" for Link, they just let him use new abilites.

Anyways, it's late and I'm sleepy, but I like only having 9 main items. If you want a dominion rod-esque one, definately use the Theives Rod, as it doesn't fit anywhere else. Perhaps even have the "Theives Rod" not be a Rod, but be like, a replacement spinner. You steal it at the beginning, a la marking you as the new Theif, Sword in the Stone accidental style, and then as you get the cogs, it gains new powers. Then, in the last dungeon, when you have the last power, or whatnot, its full use is avaliable as a heckofa useful item. Just an idea. That eliminates the needs for a silly spinner, and makes the cogs more, like, grounded. If you have a "Insert Token here to upgrade staff," I think that fits a bit better. Though, I don't really think it should be a staff. I stick with my original idea, that it should be a Gauntlet or something. Maybe a belt.
Anyways, for possesion, I think a "If I move left, you move right" mirror system could add a ton of fun challenges, especially in a giant, flying space clock type setting. And it doesn't have to be for long. If the possession is a result of having the full staff, then you're only going to really use it in the last dungeon, and presumably on the end boss (though it would probably require all the different forms of the staff, or cogs, which you can toggle.)

Anyways, Boomerang, Hookshot sound good. Flipper, Glove sounds good. Bow and Drill, I'm still not seeing the appeal of the drill, but I hated the way both the pegasus boots and the mole mits were done, (MC/LTTP and MC). But that's just me.
Bombs don't even have to be added, due to the drill, but the drill would have to take its place, entirely. Fire and Ice arrows work, so does the Cloak when we figure out exactly what it does. Anyways, it's a nice, refined number of items, plus a potential one. I like it.

Question: Why is there a Gerudo section before the Sheikah? Just wondering, I havn't checked out the real plot area or anything. If the Sheikah are Hyrule Royal Family based, the Sheikah dungeon would presumably be close to Hyrule Castle, not Gerudo Desert. Is it a detour? Anyways.

• 

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Haha, touché about the logic, Dark. Right again, You're making me look stupid bro! Haha.
Oh, also, the info about dungeon order, etc, is in the topic, 'current design information'.

So, priorities first, you're down with everything except the Bow and Drill? Awesome, we've got that much done, then. For one thing, do you actually dislike the bow, or was that a typo? It did just occur to me, we need to emphesize what the bow does differently than the boomerang.

How the bow if different from the boomerang:
Does damage instead of stunning
Goes much further, most of the screen length, I think.
Goes faster.
We could add a better aiming feature, a number of people have said they have 360 degree aiming systems for their bows.
Uh, what else?

Anyway, about the drill, yeah, if you don't like Pegasus boots or mole mitts, you'll hate the Goron Drill, cause it's just both of 'em combined. Question is, what to do instead.
One option is to just use bombs there. If we leave bombs out completely, we loose the timed part. I really like the idea that bombs can, for example, hold down a pressure switch, but only until they explode. Creates lots of interesting puzzles. So we could just have bombs as the item of Goron mines. Or switch them and the bow, have the bombs needed to get in, and the bow is the prize.

Or we could think of a totally different item to have in the mines. I don't have any ideas at the moment, you?

The other option is to rework the drill, which I'm in favor of, because new items are awesome, they get points for trying, even if they don't always work out the best.( Like the spinner. The dominion rod... Well, it gets a couple points for trying, but it tried too hard. The ball and chain was just awesome.)
So what exactly did you not like about the Pegasus boots and drill? We can always address those problems and make the drill better than them.
Or the other option is to redefine what the drill does, which is hard, because it's a drill. Haha, but it definitely needs the function of being able to break through walls. How did you feel about the Megaton hammer? It basically was stronger bombs without the timer, right? Haha, we could do that, take out the tunneling functions. Or maybe leave it in, because I like it, but don't emphesize it as the only main function.
By the way, the way I was thinking the drill would go wasn't the hey, this dungeon is filled with lots of dirt in your way. It was, hey, I can break through rocks, and walls. And murder enemies! And in a couple places, there's dirt in my way, but that's not EVERYWHERE, because when you mention it, that was kinda gimmicky. Honestly, though, I didn't mind it at all. It was a bit slow for me, which is why I added the Pegasus boots part.
So how do you think the drill/something else should go?


Haha, and now to the cogs problem... It's not a problem anymore! What am I saying?
Anyway, I like your ideas great, about the gauntlets/belt. Yeah, I definitely like those two the best, but I'm just as torn as you are, although I'm leaning toward the gauntlets. But what about bracers? I like the idea of Link having his hands free, or at least just with his signature fingerless gloves. The idea of wearing a gauntlet but NOT any other armor is kind of awkward. This is all just from an aesthetic point of view, though.

So I'm thinking, and I'll call them bracers because I think those would look the best on Link, that the bracers should have a small function of their own, so before you have the cogs, it's not like, wtf are these? What about lock picking? That was a skill talked about earlier. With the thieves' gauntlets, you got the dexterity to pick locks. Maybe that was always a really hard thing for thief Link to do while growing up, he always struggled to pick locks. But with this item he steals accidentally, he can do it better.
Then, the bracers alone could pick locks. With each cog attached, though, they could pick harder locks, as still work like I once thought, that with the forest cog, Link could pick wooden locks, which are slightly harder, with the water one, he could pick... Uh... Blue locks. Haha, but you know? Then the bracers would still have their main function.
But if you used the bracers away from a door...
BOOM! Goron Earthquake! Or tornado! I just imagine Link putting on the bracers, then pulling his arm back dramatically and slamming it into the ground, and a tornado spins up around him, blowing his hat and knocking away enemies!

And then we can look through what's left after we decide on all the items, see hey, this ability isn't covered, and assign it to a cog ability.

And in the final dungeon, Link finds the Master Theif's bracers, and puts them on, and can then... Shall we say, require things? He can go up to a statue and press the gauntlet button and then futz with it a second and then it will obey him. He can also fix some broken clock stuff this way, get gears moving.
As for the mirror thing, I think that should be just one type of statue. So it still presents the versatility of the way just controlling a statue can work, without being limited to you have to move too.


And... I still think it could be a rod. I'm not advocating it over the bracers, but the cogs wouldn't be inserted. It'd be like to rod of seasons. That had four circular tokens that were just added onto the end as you found them. Just like our four circular cogs. Just saying. The bracers/gauntlets would probably work better, though.

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Haha, sorry bout that xD The bow was in fact a typo, the bow is a staple, and should definitely be there. However, the drill seems like an original idea, I'm just not a fan. Bombs not being present presents (lol) an issue, of the timing, etc. There are so many uses for bombs if thought through correctly; it's just hard to come up with an adequate destructive weapon.

Imma let yall in on a bit of a secret: The destructive secondary in the game I'm designing with a few other people (3d, mind) are called the Gearfists, or Golem Fists. Pretty much, Link loses his sword and shield, in favor of a boxing type melee combat. With these mechanical gloves, he is able to power doors, pull rusty switches, lift bigger things, etc, as well as punching rocks and walls to crack them. Charges are a focus in my game, as Time Stop is the key ability, sort of like PH, but wayyy less broken. Charges require magic power, but power up the "Standard Weapon", ie, the Sword / Shield, or whatever else is used, in this case, the Golem Fists. These charges, cuz there are different kinds, have different effects on both the time slow and the use of the weapon. The charge could increase the knockback of the weapon, etc, while making Link slower during the pauses. Stuff like that. End spoilers.

The Drill functions for what? Digging and breaking rocks. Bombs break rocks, so it's really only good for Digging. (My issues with the mole mits and the pegasus boots in MC were simply that they were unwieldy and used very rarely, I avoided them as much as I could). The Drill also feels unweildy. I loved the hammer in WW, and the Ball and Chain in TP, they were well balanced, and easy to use. How about something that a ton of zelda people would love to see, and the diehards wouldn't fuss too much about, seeing as how TP used something similar? A Hand-Cannon! (A steampunky, heavy, clunky cannon)Examples:

You're faced with a room full of previously "diggable" dirt. Instead, you pull out a mini-cannon, which makes you slow to a crawl, unable to change directions, and constantly facing the same way. Strafing, you line up with the most dirt, and let loose. A cannonball launches out, obliterating the stuff in a straight line in front of it.
Or
You are fighting a mini-boss, boss, or whatnot, that, when stunned, takes a few hits. Instead of trying to leap over the cracks in the room, ala Ganondorf OOT, you simply whip out this bad boy, charge for a few seconds, and fire before he gets up. Incredibly powerful shots, low mobility.

And, for a TP esque feel, the cannonballs could be a One shot thing. Like, you have one ammo, that you can either leave be, and lose a precious ammo, to lie on switches and weigh them down, etc, or you could pick them up, and pocket them. It would be the kind of thing were you would probably only be able to hold 3 shots at most, but if each shot does the equivalent of two bomb blasts, and the balls were easy to retrieve, Hookshot or Boomerang maybe, it would prove a reliable weapon. You could start out with one shot, and from sidequests get more, etc. This also adds the possibilities of cannonballs occuring naturally, for similar use.

The downsides of a powerful, long ranged weapon that limited mobilities would be the following:
Hookshot - ranged stun / retrieve
Boomerang - ranged stun / retrieve
Bow - ranged damage / stun

There isn't much room for one, plus, if it were seen as too "gun-like" many zelda fans would turn up their noses. However, if it were done well, and perhaps if the boomerang were slightly different, like the Whirlwind did in ST, then it could fit. However, the drill also seems non-circuitus, at least in my opinion. It's food for thought, at least, and could accomplish more than just digging and breaking. *Extra* Potentially could shoot bombs... just a thought O.o Use it as a "replacement bombs", and have it launch them...

Cogs: I personally like the idea of either bracers or a belt, belt would probably fit best with a Cog type feel (hint, using a belt in mine too x.x) but the Gauntlet and the Rings mentioned in another thread, plus the bracer idea, would make for an interesting idea.
If you had a glove with sockets or attatchment areas for the cog, you could easily justify them being used as an attack, based on punches and whatnot, etc, but could also be used for certain skills, lock-picking like you mentioned. I don't think they should be tied to abilities, but perhaps could increase them, like the ring thread suggested. I do enjoy your idea of a "Link Hulk Smash" 
If the cogs were tied, one at a time, to the bracers, which originally allowed lock-picking, it could feasably allow access to different colored doors. Etc etc etc. I like it, I like it a lot. And I'm trying very hard not to go and write some of these ideas into my own game design book xD

Still: the "Grenade Launcher"? What do you think. I'm on edge about it, it hasn't been done before, and so it's new territory. Plus, it's a gun-esque item, that is a Player Item. It's scary stuff to consider, but it'd end up being really really cool, or just a sour taste =/ Then again, so would the drill, imo.

• 

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

I LIKE IT!
I'm all for a clunky steam punk hand cannon, especially since, if I'm not mistaken, this Zelda kind of has a bit of steam punk motif going on already, what with the cogs and Goron carbon mines.

You also mentioned shooting bombs, which is what I thought right away when I started reading, I was like, it SHOOTS the bombs! And then you went into cannonball stuff... and then you brought back bombs! Alright! As you can tell, I'm in favor of it shooting bombs. This has my vote. I'm excited about this idea!

So, let's talk ammo and balance. I agree, you cant be able to just run around with it, although I think that not being able to change directions... I mean, what if the stalfos you're trying to blast to pieces moves some? Perhaps you press the button to whip it out, then hold the button to charge a shot. When it's out, but not charging, you move slowly, but can change direction. When it's charging, you move REALLY slowly, or not at all. Tapping when it's out is equivalent to no charging, so the bomb just plops down in front of you (in case you need to use the bomb to hold down a switch). Charging for a medium time shoots it across like half the screen, charging for a long time shoots it all the way across the screen. The bomb does damage and smashes through things while it's flying. There are some things it will explode on impact with, when it's relevant to puzzles or battles. Otherwise when it reaches the end of its trajectory or hits something it can't smash through, it drops to the ground and sparks for a second before blowing up. JUST LIKE the bomb penguins from angry birds! Perfect analogy!

What I think about bombs for ammo is that then, we still have bombs in the game, which is good. We just also have an awesome way to range them, and use their speed as a smash through stuff in the meantime. But if the player doesn't charge the hand cannon, then they can lay bombs like normal.
Also, if we use bombs for ammo I recommend then using a traditional bomb finding system, where they're a randomly found thing.

The single to three shots that you have to retrieve... That doesn't sound like much fun. And then what if you shot it somewhere you couldn't each, or what if you left the map. Would the cannonball stay there? Would you regain it upon leaving the map? I dunno, I don't think I quite understand that system. Which is why I'm advocating the bombs.


SO, back to the bracers, so it seems we're in agreement, basically. Here's what I think we agree on:
Link, early in the game, steals bracers that allow him to pick locks.
When he finds the first cog, it can be attached to a bracer, allowing him to lockpock new types of locks, and do SOMETHING else.
Each successive cog allows Link to open more locks, as they're attached to the gauntlets, as well as do more SOMETHINGs.
In the final dungeon, Link finds the master thief's bracers, which allow him to rewire the clockwork statues, so he can control them, different statues can do different things.

Just double checking, we agree on that? Or do you want it to be a belt? I just felt like bracers would make more sense with lock picking.

And now, we must decide on the SOMETHING. I'll post what I think, and you post your ideas, and then we'll argue, haha.

Forest Cog
Holding the button assigned to the thief bracers charges an attack when not adjacent to a door, and when released, Link slams his fist into the ground and creates a tornado around him, which blows nearby enemies back and activates certain wind-activated switches.
Uses up magic, though, like ALTTP fire rod.

Sea Cog
Charging with this cog equipped causes an attack that shoots a wave of water across the screen in a straight line. Enemies hit are dealt some damage and stunned. Hitting some things activates switches, or example, you could fill up a container with water this way, or cause a current in a river or sea.
Uses up magic.
Uh, this idea isn't too good. The sea cog is something my ideas for havent been to great with... Hmm...
MAYBE this cog could only really have an effect in water, when you're swimming and you press the button it shoots a wave that damages enemies. I don't know how much water the game will have if this would be practical...

Earth Cog
Charging this cog equipped causes Link's punch the ground to cause an earthquake. It shakes the earth and deals damage to all enemies on screen. Some stones can be raised or lowered when hit by the earthquake. Link can then climb these stones, or get past where they used to be.
Uses a lot of magic.

Shadow Cog
Charging this... I don't have a good idea for this one, either. Perhaps it would dispel illusions, like you could punch an illusion and it would go away, haha, I don't know. It depends on what we decide the sheikah dungeon item does, it will do something other than that.


Which brings me to my next point, once we finalize the hand cannon, the only dungeon item we have left will be the sheikah dungeon.
I gave some thought to the, entering the realm of illusion, enemies can't see you but you can hurt yourself easier but you see past illusions, its cool, but, I don't know how much fun or useful it'd actually be.

I need to go, perhaps I'll have time to come back and edit this, but what I'd like to keep in the sheikah dungeon is illusions, and the sheikah wraiths. So it'd be great if the item functioned with those, but still wasn't the lens of truth. I have some kind of complex about items that drain magic power constantly, haha. If it is a cloak, it should look like the one Zelda wears in TP, too.
Aaand, with that being said, this kinda contradicts it, but... I also think the Roc's cape could work. That just happens to by my favorite item in the 2D games. It doesn't tie in with illusions, doesn't work with wraiths, but still...

OR, we could do the mirror shield and work with sunlight, like WW's earth temple. Of we do a 360 degree aiming for the bow, we could apply it to the mirror shield too, and aim sunlight at illusions to dispell them. It'd work with the dungeon theme, but... That leaves no room for the Roc's cape.  : (

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Yeah, the 3 shot thing I was referring to was in TP, where if you shot a cannonball, you could eventually go get it later, but I like the bomb idea much better. Cogs are sounding good, though my suggestions would be as follow:

Forest Cog: Instead of smashing the ground to create a tornado, he kinda flings it forward, and it gets bigger, like the Whirlwing from ST,  capable of dazing enemies and breaking pots, as well as like, extinguishing torches and tearing through Spider Webs, OOT style.

Ocean Cog: Perhaps, depending on the situation of getting it, and its being made, were it an ICE cog, it could freeze enemies and tracts of water, allowing link to slip and slide across, ala Ice Boomerang, ST. Or, for a purely water thing, maybe put him, or enemies, in bubbles? Just a thought.

Stone Cog: I like, but perhaps a funnel type attack, if the whole screen seems too overpowered, like the Forest Cog.

Shadow Cog: Personally, this contridicts my every thought, as when I look at the others, I see (Wind, Water, Earth... and Darkness?) Personally I'd do a kind of Holy Fire esque thing, for ANTI illusions. Or perhaps, using the cog could stun / confuse / disorient enemies, while identifying invisible things, like pouring a bunch of smoke into a room. Just a thought. Or it could behave like light, which dazes enemies when pointed at them, and illuminates shadowy bridges etc.

Looks like this is pretty close to being wrapped up, I like how far we've come! And bracers / glove does seem to be the best solution.

• 

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Allright!
Okay, let's try a write up for the bomb cannon.

Bomb Cannon
Found in the Goron Mines
Pressing the button pops out a bomb, which will land in front of you.holding the button will charge up the cannon, which will shoot a bomb a distance directly proportional to how long you charge for. The bomb shoots out and will either land, if the trajectory is uninterrupted, and spark for a little time before exploding, or if it collides with some objects it will explode on impact. Certain things cannot be destroyed unless they're struck by a bomb moving with sufficient speed. Bombs do lots of damage to enemies and the structural integrity of specific things such as walls. In certain areas, a bomb will clear a tunnel through something weak when shot.
Obviously, shooting the cannon uses up a bomb.
Along with the item, you gain the ability to carry bombs, which will hereafter be found randomly in grass and stuff, and sold by some merchants. Bombs, like arrows, are not used on their own, though. The capacity of bombs you can initially carry will depend on how many puzzles use them, but probably about thirty. This can be upgraded through side quests.


Now to the cogs. Ice cog, nice. That does solve lots of our problems. For that matter, we could even have a steam cog, but that might be going too far.

For the forest cog, I wasn't imagining the whole screen being taken up by the tornado, just the area directly around Link. Shooting it forward does seem to have more applications, though. So alright, Link creates a tornado and shoots it forward. How far? I'm thinking after half the screen, it dissipates. Also, it can destroy pots and the like, and definitely put out torches, but I think we should leave things like spider webs for the fire arrows.

Ice Cog, Let's watch out so we don't override the ice arrows. I'm digging the ice spreader kind of thing, Link does like a bowling motion, and the line of ground in front of him ices over. If it hits enemies, they freeze. Awesome, and I love the creating paths over water. I feel like this may just override the ice arrows, though. They'd be a less useful, more ranged version. And... Link gets this after he can swim, so well have to make sure walking over water is still useful...

So we should change either the ice cog OR ice arrows. Personally, I think the ice cog is cooler. HAHA oh wow, that's a bad pun. Anyway, here's opinions on the ice problem:

Remove the ice arrows, so you just get fire arrows in Gerudo valley. Perhaps ice arrows would still be available as an optional thing, but they wouldn't be as useful.

Remove the ice cog, and come up with a different idea for the water cog. It just wouldn't be as cool, though, as Link would no longer be able to like, shoot ice forward and freeze enemies, that'd just look so cool!

Replace the fire and ice arrows with a fire rod type item. Not as cool as fire and ice arrows, but it would accomplish the same thing. Fire rod is to 2D and Fire arrows are to 3D. Keep the ice cog this way.


...
Link used bubble beam!

Haha, that just what I thought when you mentioned bubbles. But you could be onto something, there.


And as for the earth cog, we basically agree. I said whole screen because I was thinking of quake medallion. But if you think that'd be over powered, then yeah, give it like a quarter of the screen fissure type attack. I think it might need to be tested to see if that would be over powering.

And the freaking shadow cog...hmm.

PERHAPS, we could change things a little. If you go directly from the sheikah temple to the clock, then perhaps the shadow cog could be what is responsible for controlling the machines. The cog would shoot out a little whip of dark energy, if it hit an enemy, they'd be disoriented, having suddenly been afflicted by illusionary tormentors. If you hit a statue, the energy resounds within them as they're of sheikah design, and you can control them. Except for sheikah designed artifacts, the shadow cog would basically afflict the target with imaginary demons. Perhaps the guardian could even BE a sheikah wraith, like, the most powerful one.
I like this idea because it gives Link a slightly darker power, one that isn't technically heroic. It sort of shows Link some power that he must be responsible with, and illustrates how the sheikah's affinity for shadow can sometimes lead to dark forces they can't really control. Sheikah wraiths, Bongo Bongo, etc. Its not really relevant to gameplay or the story at all, really, but it just like, a Majora's mask kind of thing to do, to allude at deeper meanings.

This also allows us one more item for the clock dungeon, should be choose. Or we could leave it item less. OR, as I autocorrect doesn't recognize itemless, and it corrects it to timeless, we could have some kind of time type item? A clock of some kind that could... Do stuff... I'm outta ideas. Haha.

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

I think the Clock dungeon should be itemless, or perhaps just using the statue / gear control.

Anyways, the Ice cog vs Ice arrows. Both are cool, imo, and I loved the Ice arrows in every game to date, so perhaps a "bubble" or "steam" cog could be more effective. Perhaps, sort of like a geyser, it shoots pillars of steaming water in front of him, scalding enemies that it hits, MELTING ice, etc. I hadn't even thought of steam, but it fits. That would act as an "anti" ice arrows, or perhaps, it could only work on water... say, if there were puddles, it would spawn a pillar from every puddle... or something.

The shadow cog. That silly, silly cog, whatever shall we do with it? Perhaps if it weren't a shadow cog at all, but like you said, more related to the mirror shield. Perhaps the dazing and stuff i mentioned, plus if you blasted a statue, it would come to life, animated by the cogs energy. I do like the shadow torment kind of thing, as it is antiheroic, and it should fit, but it doesn't really tie in to the statues. I think we need to decide entirely on what the shadow dungeon is, what item it has, and then decide on the cog =/

So, my votes go for: Nature Cog: Whirlwing Launching Punch
                              Steam Cog: Pillars of Boiling Water
                              Stone Cog: "Hulk" Smash!
                              "Light" Cog: Beams of Dazing and Energizing Light.

Thus they stand until other ideas are presented... and stuff xD

• 

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Man, really frustrating, I tried to post this three times last night, server wasn't responding... Hopefully it'll work, and the university's Internet will be more cooperative.

Alright, so, let's figure out the steam, shadow cog, and shadow item.

Firstly, the shadow dog, because I'm actually kind of excited about the dark energy thing. Let me rephrase it, because I think it does, in fact, tie in with the statues. Well, let me explain this cog's history, as I'm proposing.

When the Gorons created all the cogs ages ago, each race which protected one endowed them with powers. The sheikah gave the power to control statues they constructed, but the way the statues are powered is with dark magic of the sheikah tribe, which the sheikah could not entirely control. My impression of them is that they dabble in dark forces a bit beyond their understanding. As a result of this dark magic, when the power is used on things other then the statues, it inflicts the target with terrifying illusions of wraiths. These hallucinations daze the target and perhaps paralyze them. Perhaps they are slowly poisoned by the stress on their minds, even. But these results are just a side effect of the main purpose of the cog's magic, which is to power the ancient sheikah statues, which do various things. Such as protecting the Celestial Clock.

I think this is basically the same as what you're suggesting, but instead of using light as the theme, which is opposite the sheikah motif, it uses darkness.

Also, if we leave the clock without an item, we can make use of this cog's power to animate statues as one of the main staples of the Celestial Clock. Which kind of makes sense, because in TP, the main thing in the temple of time, the resting place of the master sword there, was similar statues. Since now the clock is where the master sword is kept, statues are a good tie in. Allusion, as King Titero would say, haha.



Ah, now to the steam cog. Since I believe there is a steam punk theme kind of going on in this game, perhaps the steam cog could also power some machines? I like the melting of ice, that could come in handy, especially since the "fire" themed dungeon's cog is focusing on earth. But again... Won't this step on the fire arrow's toes? Haha, with the fire and ice arrows, we kinda can't use other items that melt or freeze. Hmm, I'd like it if the water cog had something effect that worked better or only worked while swimming, I think. But also had a good use outside of that.

Brainstorm session:
Creates a wave. On land, it's basically, Link used surf! Hits enemies and can flood some areas to solve puzzles, can put out torches, fires. In water, though, it's like a super boost, you surf on the wave you create forward, and damage any water enemies you may pass. It'd make you invincible for the duration of the wave, I think. You could use this one to power water wheels.

That's just ideas, obviously. I'm still down for steam too, if we can think of something it does that doesn't override the fire arrows...


And as for the sheikah dungeon's item, how DO you feel about the mirror shield? Allowing for a light/dark theme, and light puzzles, which I find fun... In 3D games at least. But having the opportunity for a sheikah dungeon, with their death and darkness association. Would the mirror shield be a disappointing item? I mean, I really want something cooler, but I have no ideas of something that would actually work, be fun, present lots of puzzle opportunities, be used in fighting sometimes.
Perhaps we could combine the mirror shield with something else? Or at least the projecting light aspect, somehow combined with the illusion theme?

Or we could use the Roc's cape. Just stick a sheikah eye on the back of it and boom, sheikah agility. Haha.

[Mirby]

Mirby

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Project light to reveal the truths of the illusion? I dunno, sounds good to me.

As for steam... Why not make puzzles that require a container to be filled? I mean, as in a lock and stuff. Use the steam to fill the chamber which in turn triggers a reaction to solve a puzzle.

Mirby Studios | Share & Enjoy now available! (Links above!) | Games I've Beaten

I like-like it

• 

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

You guys both think she sheikah cog could be light? I mean, if I'm voted down, then that's the way it goes, but you could have a cog that accesses dark sheikah magic to control ancient statues, and it effects the minds of enemies to afflict them with imaginary tormentors. Or you could have a cog created by the shadow folk that caused a beam of light, their opposite, which powers up statues and can make enemies dizzy from bright lights. Which is cooler, really?

Also, I keep having ideas that are mixes of dungeons and story and items, but since the sheikah are dark people, what if their enemies, the Gerudo, have an association with light? Right now, I think their God is the god of the sand, but they could easily have something to do with sun, too. I mean, just an idea, but especially if the sheikah dungeon was between the two domains, it could be an interesting metaphorical battle in the puzzles between light and darkness. Some puzzles would be solved by lighting an area, others by darkening it.
Eh, it's not this topic or even this division, because it's dungeons, but still...

I's still down with steam if the puzzles wouldn't be too... Contrived? Gimmicky? It doesn't seem like a puzzle that would make too much sense unless somebody had designed the puzzle for the cog to activate. Like, tornados blowing stuff down, or turning windmills, or earthquakes shifting rocks, those basically make sense, as in, it's a cog that happens to be able to effect things that are regularly there. But a steam cog, I feel like, wouldn't really be able to affect much that just happened to be there.
Also, would using the steam cog look cool?

No ideas for the sheikah item, though? I'm thinking, we should try to rework the shadow cloak again, or work something out with illusions, which aren't affected by the cog, or perhaps something with the light aspects of the mirror shield. If we don't come up with anything acceptable, then we'll decide between the mirror shield and the Roc's cape. Sound good? Let's try to wrap up these last two items really soon!

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Mmkay. My (like, for the fiftieth time) 2 cents (dang, i have like... a dollar! Sweet!) But anyways:
I agree, the steam cog is stepping into the Fire Arrows area of use, and I HATE items that overlap too much, like TP's THREE bomb bags, it was uneccesary.
So, if the water cog can't Freeze, Melt, or really do water, what can it do? I'm still game for the Bubblebeam, where you can trap enemies long enough to deal with others, but the Wave idea is looking better and better. Perhaps, like you say, it could be used for things like powering water wheels, which makes me think currents. Not sure if you've ever played WoW, but one of my favorite spells in the game, was druid's Typhoon, which shoots a big wave of magic water. Pretty much, it just launched people backwards. What I'm suggesting, is a wave that expands (wider) as it goes out, to pretty much shove everyone away, giving Link room to breath, while propelling him forward in water, or something, like, if he swam into it, like, swim dash chased it, he could be like, super boosted or something.

Anyways: Big, concussive wave that shoves people, and makes Link go faster in water. Potential to overcome currents and power water wheels, as well as douse fires.

I still like steam, but I don't think it's different enough from the fire arrows. Perhaps if we only had one, like, only having Ice arrows, it'd be a sort of interesting flip flop of the norm. Who knows.


-------


The Shadow Duo. One, mirror shield doesn't really fit well, I don't think it could be implemented well enough, or provide much further use, than in the Sheikah dungeon, which should be only sheikah, no gerudo and whatnot. For one, I'd suggest something to do with stealth, and the other to do with energy and statues. Whether the item has to do with the statues, and the cog to do with stealth is up in the air.

So: Controllable Statues
      Invisibility
      Revealed Illusions

appear to be the biggest points for Sheikah stuff. I REALLY don't see the need for another "daze" cog, as we already have 2, which is kinda pushing it, but not a third. Otherwise i'd suggest a momentary invisibility due to flashbang / deku nut.

Anyways, my ideas are as follows:

Shadow Cog: An Elegy of Emptiness type effect: Links "Soul" is manifested into a statue, ala MM, that mirrors his movements. At any time, the Real Link and the Statue Link can "Switch Places", so if you sneak your guy past a guard who detects living things, and then switch, you're safe. Anywho, this ability can be used on Statues, allowing you to have a mirror Statue, who copies your movements. I dunno.

The Shadow Whip idea Max presented is easily my favorite, but if instead of dazing / confusing the enemy, it made it hostile to other enemies, sort of like Mind Control, but without Control, so you bop a Moblin, who then runs around hunting Octorocks, sound sweet to me. Then, when used on a statue, it activates it, or when used on something like a pot or switch, it could shudder, expell smoke, and then shatter or flip. Shadow Whip Cog has my vote.

For the Item, there's stealth, stealth or mirror shield, ie, light, and I don't like lights.

So, ideas.

Invisibility Cloak: Dur.... um, it makes Link Inwisible, like in LTTP... yay.
...
Lens of Truth: Dur... um, lets Link see tings thats inwisible, like in OOT... yay.
...
Um... lets see.

But seriously: perhaps a Cane of Myrna or whatever from LTTP, that lit up invisible platforms and made them solid, or like sensing / LoT, and perhaps have a "Use for Treasure" kind of thing, so that you could find that rat that ate the key, or something. I've got no ideas for this one really. Having a cloak that makes you invisible to mundane things, but drives you mad and makes you a target for the ghosty ones is probably my best idea.

What'd'ya think?

• 

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

I love the elegy of emptiness, and I love puzzles where things mirror you. OOX were the only ones that really used them that I remember, but limiting the statue to mirroring seems... Limiting! Haha.
Oh, my battery is about the die, but, I'm also really partial to the shadow whip. And yes, dazing enemies, AGAIN is dumb. So am I SO for the idea of turning them against other enemies. For consideration, what if they just attacked randomly. Sometimes you, sometimes others... But that wouldn't be very useful unless they were also given some kind of doom effect, where they attacked maybe you, maybe not, for a little until they died. But yeah, attacking other enemies, for sure.

I also like bubbles, but it's hard to think of applications for them. Can you do a write up for the typhoon cog idea? I'm down for it, at least considering it in more detail. I'll add more to this when I get home to my charger...

Also, what if we combined the lens of truth and invisibility? Combined items seem to be a thing we're doing, haha. Anyway, probably not, I don't see how that'd go different than the old shadow cloak. I gotta go, but I'll be back to edit this.

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Typhoon Cog:

   Land Function: When Link uses the Typhoon Cog on land, it creates an outward moving wall of water that pushes enemies away from him. This also is able to shatter pots and weak structures such as bushes.

   Water Function: When Link uses the Typhoon Cog in/into water, it creates a vortex of churning water that draws everything nearby into it, (potentially expelling them), gathering them up nicely. This also has the effect of disabling whirlpools (as previously mentioned, like in pokemon) allowing access to different water areas.

-

Shadow Cloak:

Use: Conceals Link from the vision of most enemies, but makes him visible to others, such as spirits and ghosts. While invisible, Link can see invisible things previously unobservable, but distinguishing things that were previously visible becomes a challenge.

Obtained: Sheikah Temple

-

I dunno, I'm too tired for anything more than that, but I'd say, once we nail down the Water Cog, which now sounds similar to the Nature Cog, and keep everything seperate, only have one daze, one confuse, one damage, and one ________ cog, then we can probably say goodnight to this whole shabang.

• 

[thestig]

thestig

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Man, really frustrating, I tried to post this three times last night, server wasn't responding... Hopefully it'll work, and the university's Internet will be more cooperative.

I've been having this problem as well... seems fine today now, though.

The sheikah gave the power to control statues they constructed, but the way the statues are powered is with dark magic of the sheikah tribe, which the sheikah could not entirely control. My impression of them is that they dabble in dark forces a bit beyond their understanding.

I know this is unrelated to the item itself, but does this mean that there will be a rather "corrupt", or "dark" sheikah featured as a villain?

As a result of this dark magic, when the power is used on things other then the statues, it inflicts the target with terrifying illusions of wraiths. These hallucinations daze the target and perhaps paralyze them. Perhaps they are slowly poisoned by the stress on their minds, even. But these results are just a side effect of the main purpose of the cog's magic, which is to power the ancient sheikah statues, which do various things. Such as protecting the Celestial Clock.

Shadow Cog: An Elegy of Emptiness type effect: Links "Soul" is manifested into a statue, ala MM, that mirrors his movements. At any time, the Real Link and the Statue Link can "Switch Places", so if you sneak your guy past a guard who detects living things, and then switch, you're safe. Anywho, this ability can be used on Statues, allowing you to have a mirror Statue, who copies your movements. I dunno.

That's a good idea, in regards to the Elegy of Emptiness-type effect. I had an idea which could expand the light/dark effects based on your area. Take for example, the Shadow Cog. Perhaps it can be given different or extended functionality in the boss room. I'm going to actually just introduce several examples rather than define a specific example as I think this aspect could be defined once we have an idea of when this idea would be used and for what bosses. (i.e. Add "shadow" effect to attacks that could allow Link to deflect certain projectiles with his sword)

-- My two cents. Oh, seems Dark-Hylian already had the idea of multiple uses in place. Guess that means the idea is a good one if more than one people are thinking about it!

EDIT: Adding more content.

In regards to the Water Cog(Typhoon Cog?), I was just going to add that there could also be ice-breaking functionality added to the list of water functions, since you're moving water. (i.e. Ice can be broken to expose water so you can form a stream of water that can be used to form an ice-bridge. You're moving water, so I would assume this would mean forming a pathway to maybe a previously unreachable area). We can do a lot with the water functionality. Take for example, the Water Temple from Majora's Mask, with its use of water pipelines and water spouts... You could use the Typhoon Cog to move water and create a rise in pressure, forming a water spout that turns a wheel.

I apologize if my posting style is kinda funky, I'll change my ways if necessary.

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Actually, something you said gave me an idea. Perhaps, the water cog could be used primarily for defense, or for removing whirlpools. If you take it on those levels, you could have kind of a spiral, water shield, that blunts or blocks any incoming damage. Then we have:

Forest Cog: Daze
Stone Cog: Damage
Shadow Cog: Confuse
Water Cog: Deflect

I think having the water cog's ability be defensive would be a good fit. But I'm still struggling to like any of the concepts. Steam still has my vote, but it'd be hard to do =/ I think the water cog should have a defensive or 'Not dazing, confusing, or directly damaging effect, such as... protection for Link, etc.'

@thestig - I thought, I havn't looked into it, the villain was Ganondorf...

• 

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Here's what I know about story so far, but as it isn't in the current design information, it is presumably still debatable. My plan is to look it over with the current team once the gameplay is fixed down.
http://www.zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=38276.0

It's a solid story, interesting but not too complicated, has multiple conflicts that get resolved with the main one, and fits the zelda style narrative great. We'll definitely change some of this, especially as it goes into a lot of details that involve things such as items we've taken away. But I think the gist of it will stay the same. I'd like that, anyway, but again, it's up to this team. But not yet!
Anyway, point of this tangent was, nope, no Sheikah villain. The comments on the sheikah's nature were just background information, and opinions on it at that. Ganondorf is indeed the main villain.

Back to items though!

To address these in the order they were brought up, basically, Stig, what do you mean about items having additional abilities in boss rooms? I feel like you could look at that two ways, like,  you could mean that, say, the magnetic gloves in the boss room can repel the projectiles the boss shoots at you, because they're magnetically charged. Or you could be meaning that using the magnetic gloves in the boss room allows you to shoot fire from your sword. The difference, although the second example is a  bit extreme for emphasis, is that the first way is the item doing the same thing it always does, the same way as always, but due to particular things in the boss room, it has a new effect. The second way is the item doing things it's never done, or doing things in a way it's never done, which is confusing for the player. I'm all in support of the first way, but that won't be addressed until we do enemies, presuming we're doing bosses. Which I think we'll probably wait on until the levels team defines the dungeons a bit more, so we'll have a theme, sort of. Of course, the boss might define the theme, so maybe we won't work entirely independently.

I agree that the elegy of emptiness was cool, and can be a useful thing for puzzles, and especially like the mirror idea, because that adds in a combat application, like if you swung your sword, your mirror would to. BUT, what item would this be tied to, the shadow cog? If so, that would have to replace the statues application, and honestly, if we've got mirror images an involved as moving and potentially attacking, that's more of a whole item unto itself. It seems a bit much to assign to one cog. Perhaps this mirror thing could be involved with the shadow cloak? This could reconcile a lot of ideas about these items:

Putting on the shadow cloak makes you invisible to some enemies, and makes illusions' truth more apparent (ie, fake doors will take on a slightly different color, there will be a haze where an invisible object is like a platform or chest, etc), but attracts sheikah wraiths, as you're in their realm. When you hold down the button, you create an illusory, mirrored copy of yourself to sort of replace you. The mirror moves as an inverse to your movements, and when you attack, it does to. It probably won't be able to use any of your other items , though. The mirror copy can be used to solve puzzles like holding down switches and hitting multiple things at once.

This seems to reconcile a few different ideas, but would probably need to be tested. If this doesn't seem to work out, I'm also quite down with the idea of using the cane of brynna/samaria/whatever. I just re-bought LTTP (my sisters apparently sold my old copy), but I'm not that far yet, just beat the eastern palace and the armos knights. By the way, studying dungeons from different games is a must when you're making your own. Just studying one game isn't NEARLY as helpful.


For the water cog, YES, NYRU'S LOVE type item! Haha, defense never occurred to me, but that's actually a great idea. When you use the water or steam cog, you surround yourself with a spinning veil of water or steam that deflects attacks while your magic holds out, using it in water creates a whirlpool which can defend you from enemies and negate other whirlpools.
Do whirlpools only spin a particularly way in life, like Clockwise in the southern hemisphere or something? The water cog would spin the other way, and negate them.

Also, I said water/steam, because steam could still work. You surround yourself with a spinning cloud of steam, and it protects you. You could, in water, perhaps evaporate the whirlpools? Or perhaps cause a ranged thing, where you sort of boiled the water in front of you, and it was a ranged attack you could use in water? You'd shoot a wave of boiling water, which could hit enemies, and start waterwheels. And then when you used the defensive veil on land in the proper places, the steam could be directed into some kind of pipe or something and operate a steam-powered machine.
Of course, what I'm mostly in favor of is the Nyru's Love type item. The defensive aspect. The other ideas are just ideas.

Also, thanks for analyzing the effects of the cogs as a whole, I really should have done that. Of course, this is just a brainstorming topic, technically, but we're using it to define specifically, haha. I might add, besides the dazing of the Forest cog, it might also knock back.

Also, an idea I have for the last few items is this, after a little more discussion of the steam/water cog, we should have two basic options, one of either steam or water offensively, the other defensively with perhaps some other applications. We'll pick the better option, do a writeup, and then ratify it. How does a ratification system for the rest of the items sound? Now that we've got four of us on the team, it'll be a bit harder to come to conclusions. Not too much harder, though, because it's still pretty small.

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Okay, sorry for the double post guys, I'm just slightly alarmed by the way the activity in this topic was suddenly beheaded. I know it's only been three days, but we were going at a speed of two or three posts a day (there were NINE between the 17th and 18th) and then three days with nothing is kinda wierd. Was it something I said? Haha, but really, as the leader of the game design division, I'm planning the way we'll figure design the game out, but when we're brainstorming and deciding, I'm only as authoritative as each of you, so if I ever come off as over authoritative or bossy or anything, you're all free to argue with me. Like when I was pulling for the spinner, thanks for pointing out how it was a terrible idea, Dark Hylian.
ANYWAY, back to business, tangents!

SO, moral of the story, what's up, where'd everybody go? As a response to that, I'm just gonna sum everything up. We've got all the items decided so far except the shadow temple item and cog. However, these were decided when it was basically only Dark Hylian and I, so I thought I'd gather all the item writeups together once more, so Mirby and Stig could look 'em over, make any suggestions, if you guys dislike the way anything's worded or something. The most original items, the bomb cannon, and kinda the magnet gloves, those are the most subject to change. Things like the bow, I don't know what you'd suggest. Perhaps a 360 degree ish aiming thing? I'm not actually sure if that'd be better, somebody would have to tell me from having played games both ways.

The most complete list of main items so far:


Thief Bracers
Found in Hyrule Town

Pressing the button next to certain locks allows you to pick them. Using them away from locks would do nothing. Each of the cogs can be individually equipped to the bracers, and using the bracers next to locks then would allow you to pick special locks which correspond to the type of cog equipped. Using the bracers away from a lock with cogs equipped will result in that cog’s special attack.

Boomerang
Found in the forest, needed to get into the temple.

Pressing the button throws the boomerang, which goes in a straight line in the direction you're facing for a bit less than half the screen, then comes back toward you, to wherever you may have moved since throwing it.
When enemies are hit by the boomerang, they're stunned, some weak enemies may take damage. Impact switches (activated by striking) can be activated with the boomerang, and perhaps some specific things hanging from ropes or vines can be cut down.


Hookshot
Found in the forest temple, used first to traverse the forest canopy, going from tree to tree and branch to branch.

When you press the button, the shooting end extends on a chain from the grip. When the hook end hits your target, it stuns enemies and removes whatever power ups they might have, destroys some things like pots, latches and pulls in light objects, and drags link toward larger anchored objects it can attach to. The hookshot can drag you across gaps, activate switches if they're close enough and the right type, as well as be useful in combat.
A hookshot is used by one man in a port town as a tool to pull ships in to the docks, but was discontinued because it just kept pulling him into the sides of boats (not really relevant... Haha)


Flippers
Given to you by a member of the Zora Royal family after you rescue him from the cave where they were stored. Used to rescue the remaining Zora royalty and enter the water dungeon.

Once you have the flippers, you can swim and dive. Swimming is standard Zelda, you blub blub along, press the action button to dash, b button to dive. Diving in shallow water lets you dodge enemies. But diving in certain deep waters lets you enter another under water map, like OOX and pokemon's HM dive.

The under water parts could be either side scrolling or like other maps, or perhaps some of both. You can use your sword while diving, but not swimming, both on side scrolling maps as well as top down under water maps. Most other items wouldn't work while diving; however, some would, such as the water cog.



Magnetic Gloves
Found in the water dungeon

Pressing the button activates the magnetic gloves, one polarity at a time. Pressing the equivalent of the R trigger switches polarity instantly. The magnetic charge is active for as long as you hold down the button.
When the magnetic gloves are activated, a strong magnetic pulse is sent out. Items of opposite polarity are attracted to it, and if they're mobile, they'll head toward Link. If they're stationary, Link will be dragged toward them. Items of opposite polarity will be repulsed away from Link, or push him away, depending on whether or not they're stationary.
When the magnetic gloves are equipped, Link can use them to climb metal walls and attach himself to magnetic platforms and cranes, particularly in the Goron dungeon and Gorons use these to mine. Certain switches can also be toggled with the magnetic gloves, but only when they're in range.


Bow and Arrow
Found in the Goron mountains, needed to access the Goron mines.

Pressing the button fires an arrow in the direction Link is facing. It does not go the entire length of the screen, but the majority of it. If an arrow hits an object, it will stop, but they can fly over certain low fences and barriers.
The bow and arrow can be used to hit enemies from afar. It does minor damage to enemies. The projectiles can also be used to hit basic impact switches that are out of reach, eyeball switches, and when necessary, knock some hanging items down.
Obviously, you need arrows to shoot.

Bomb Cannon
Found in the Goron Mines
Pressing the button pops out a bomb, which will land in front of you.holding the button will charge up the cannon, which will shoot a bomb a distance directly proportional to how long you charge for. The bomb shoots out and will either land, if the trajectory is uninterrupted, and spark for a little time before exploding, or if it collides with some objects it will explode on impact. Certain things cannot be destroyed unless they're struck by a bomb moving with sufficient speed. Bombs do lots of damage to enemies and the structural integrity of specific things such as walls. In certain areas, a bomb will clear a tunnel through something weak when shot.
Obviously, shooting the cannon uses up a bomb.
Along with the item, you gain the ability to carry bombs, which will hereafter be found randomly in grass and stuff, and sold by some merchants. Bombs, like arrows, are not used on their own, though. The capacity of bombs you can initially carry will depend on how many puzzles use them, but probably about thirty. This can be upgraded through side quests.

Fire and Ice Arrows
Found in Gerudo Fortress before entering the Valley of Death.

When aiming the bow, but before releasing it, you can press the equivalent of the R trigger to switch types of arrows. The selected type remains equipped to the bow until you switch again or unequip the bow from its button.
Fire arrows could burn things, to light torches and open pathways blocked with wood. Ice arrows could freeze things to use as stepping stones, or freezing some things would make them breakable, for instance freezing a certain type of plant would make it so you could shatter it and get past.
Using the fire or ice arrows requires magic which is used up based in how many arrows you shoot, not how long you aim the bow for. I.e., it takes 5 points to shoot a fire arrow, no matter how long you charge the arrow in your bow for.



and then the shadow cloak thing, whatever.
SO, Dark Hylian, if you've got any changes you'd like, you too, but Mirby and Stig, I dunno if you've looked these over yet.

Now, the steam cog seems like the most different from the other cogs, and still useful. I'll do a quick writeup for it:

Steam Cog
Found at the end of the water dungeon
Using the bracers with the steam cog activated creates a spinning veil of mist around you that protects you from enemy attacks for as long as you hold the button down, but drains magic pretty quick.  Just tapping the button creates a burst of steam in front of you that can activate some steam machinery. Using the steam cog in water boosts you forward and damages any enemies you hit, similar to how Zora Link used magic under water.


As for the sheikah cog, the entering the illusion realm and creating a mirrored copy of yourself in the visible realm (when the button's held down) seems like it reconciles the most ideas. However, is it a good idea in itself?

So guys, I dunno what's been going on the last few days, maybe everybody was just busy over the weekend, but now let's get back on it! All the items are almost done!


Also, again, sorry for the ridiculously long post.

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Haha, it's alright. I only didn't reply because there wasn't much to reply too. I think it looks pretty good, the shadow cloak and the shadow cog are the most contested issues at the moment, but the "Shadow Whip - Confuse / Control" for the cog, and the "You can't see me, I can't see you" Cloak are probably the best options. For the bow, I suggest only 8 directions, for coding and graphics ease. 360 doesn't seem feasable, or easy to use for the player. Anyways, the boomerang could perhaps have a lock-on mechanism, or it could bounce? I think if we keep what we have, it's pretty original, and doesn't need much help. The hookshot needs more than just a make-over if it wants to feel different, like perhaps a new use, etc.

On the non-posting issue, I am currently planning a novel, and helping a friend with their game, so I'm really busy.

• 

[MG-Zero]

MG-Zero

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Just checking in on progress due to the interest in the art division!  I like what I'm seeing, keep it up!

i love big weenies and i cannot lie

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Alright guys, you heard the man, let's keep it up. I'm just gonna put this up now, so if anybody looks in over thanksgiving weekend. Any more comments on the listed items will be taken into account for the next few days, but after next week gets into full swing, they're gonna be finalised. Dark-Hylian, the bow. Yes. 8 Ways. That is definitely the way to go. I'll get back to the bow later in this post, I want to get these last two down, so we're gonna vote yea and nea on the different aspects of the steam cog and shadow cloak. Also, let me know if I've forgotten any aspects that seemed reasonable.

Steam Cog
-Defensive Steam Veil
-Powers up steam technology
-Boosts you in water
-Damages enemies you hit in water

Or

-Water based, surf like attack
-Hits enemies on land with wave, Pushes back
-Floods some things to solve puzzles
-Boosts you (surfin' Link) in water
OR
-creates whirlpool in water, drawing enemies in, disables other whirlpools.


I think that's all we had for this cog that didn't step on the toes of the fire and ice arrows.


Shadow Cloak
-Turns You Invisible to enemies

And/or

-Makes Enemies hard to see, but reveals the nature of illusions &invisible objects

And Or

-Creates a mirror Link that can attack and solve puzzles.


Again, of I've forgotten any reasonable aspects, let me know. I think we've discussed these things long enough that now we've all got opinions, so let's once and for all get em down.


Now, about the bow, yeah, eight ways is perfect. How are we going to do the in between directions, though? Link kinda needs to be able to hold the bow ready and still move to make use of the fire/ice arrows, if we switch WW style with the R button. Or does he? Perhaps Link can't move while holding the bow ready, but can spin and charge arrows with fire and ice. There would also be a cancel button.

Writeup:
Pressing the button puts you in aiming mode. You can spin eight directions, and switch between fire, ice, and regular. There is a cancel button to return to normal mode, and pressing the button again fires the arrow.
How does that sound? I don't mind if we debate some specifics of how the controls relate to items for a while, because we've definitely decided on what the item does, at least.

But the main thing is the shadow cloak and steam cog!

The secondary thing is the bow!

The tertiary thing is Dark Hylian's name, it's so long! Can I just call you Dark, or is that somebody else? Do you have another name I could call you?