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Demo 2!
« on: February 13, 2016, 12:15:30 am »
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HERE WE GO!!

https://github.com/ZFGCCP/kot-mono/releases/tag/Demo2.1

Hope you all enjoy!  It's a brief demo as last time, but should have some noticeable improvements.

In particular, controls have been changed to the following:

WASD: move
Space: sword
Left Arrow: item 1
Up Arrow: Action/talk/roll
C: Scroll text(got lazy, forgot to change this one)

you should also see a performance gain if you had a low framerate in the last demo.  You can check out the framerate for update and draw by pressing the B key.

So please give some feedback on what you find/like/hate!  Any bugs you find, tiling errors, game crashes, performance issues etc.  Don't go easy on us, we want to knock out everything we can!

As a final note, please remember the demo content doesn't have anything to do with the game's overall story.  You will be within the Castle town and you will also see some NPCs that will be in the final game.  But the task at hand is unrelated.  There are a total of 6 things for you to kill (7 counting the boss), so that should help you get started!

EDIT: Should also mention there is currently no game over or restart screen.  So when you die, or when the demo is over, the game will exit.

EDIT2: issues fixed:
various tiling errors
no collision after vaulting over wall
sword can be used indoors now
player cannot walk while textboxes are open
right arrow no longer shoots an arrow
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dotyue

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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 09:52:04 am »
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first!  :P

doesnt work for me (Windows 7, 64-Bit)
i tried compability mode and admin rights, always the same

the fonts are installed
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2016, 12:33:19 pm »
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I didn't have much time to test this morning but in 5 minutes the game broke three times >:( You can walk on many tiles where you shouldn't be able to walk like the river.
The bridge over the town shoul be retiled somehow so the player know that he can walk under it (at first I didn't realize that it was in a higher area). When walking into a house
(somewhere in the "rich" section of the town) the screen goes black. When pressing the right arrow the game crashes.  And somehow everything looks mixed up like it is not ment to be together. Maybe there should be some shading to change this.
However I like the demo all in all. I just wanted to point out what you should improve. I would really like to play a bugfixed version. :)
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2016, 12:44:59 pm »
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Well, in the intro if you keep hitting enter long enough and fast enough, the game crashes.
When you kill a snake under the bridge, the dying animation goes over the bridge.
I somehow got the player to get stuck on one animation loop. (something to do with spin attack I presume?)
Ingo says I killed all the snakes when it's pretty clear I didn't. : D
Annoyingly often when I go inside a house the camera suddenly loses the player. Sometimes you might get out, but many times the doorway didn't trigger the event of the player switching rooms.
The player can't swing his sword indoors while touching/being near a furniture. The game just kinda crashes.
I could jump over a wall when I just walked towards it downwards. : D
When I charge my sword the sword just vanishes.
One time the intro speech didn't continue and the man speaking didn't disappear. He just got stuck in his "got item" sprite. And when you hit him, you just get electrocuted.
Many many many cases of me being under or over objects I'm clearly not supposed to be able to.

All this I found while playing for about 15 minutes max. And I'm positive if I would've used more time I would've found double the amount.
Oh, and his facing while walking is still odd. He should always face the way you first press on your keyboard when walking diagonally.

After killing the snakes I was pretty lost on what to do. I presumed I would get the fairy dust from Ingo's shop, but I guess I was wrong or I'm doing something wrong.

Loads of stuff to fix, but it's a decent base I guess.
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2016, 03:13:13 pm »
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Well, in the intro if you keep hitting enter long enough and fast enough, the game crashes.
When you kill a snake under the bridge, the dying animation goes over the bridge.
I somehow got the player to get stuck on one animation loop. (something to do with spin attack I presume?)
Ingo says I killed all the snakes when it's pretty clear I didn't. : D
Annoyingly often when I go inside a house the camera suddenly loses the player. Sometimes you might get out, but many times the doorway didn't trigger the event of the player switching rooms.
The player can't swing his sword indoors while touching/being near a furniture. The game just kinda crashes.
I could jump over a wall when I just walked towards it downwards. : D
When I charge my sword the sword just vanishes.
One time the intro speech didn't continue and the man speaking didn't disappear. He just got stuck in his "got item" sprite. And when you hit him, you just get electrocuted.
Many many many cases of me being under or over objects I'm clearly not supposed to be able to.

All this I found while playing for about 15 minutes max. And I'm positive if I would've used more time I would've found double the amount.
Oh, and his facing while walking is still odd. He should always face the way you first press on your keyboard when walking diagonally.

After killing the snakes I was pretty lost on what to do. I presumed I would get the fairy dust from Ingo's shop, but I guess I was wrong or I'm doing something wrong.

Loads of stuff to fix, but it's a decent base I guess.

Lets see what we got here...

1. The intro as in the title screen, or the opening dialog?
2. Noted
3. Probably, the spin attack isn't complete yet.  I forgot to remove it since it fell off my radar.
4. How many did you kill? EDIT: Oh, I see in your screenshot!  Very strange.  Noted!
5. Hmm, did this happen in any particular houses or was it kind of random?
6. noted! Think I know whats causing this actually
7. This is intended, it's the wall vault feature ;) Although I suppose having some additional input on it would be beneficial so you don't just auto jump
8. see number 3
9. Interesting..any other buttons you pressed besides C during his dialog?
10. Probably tiling errors.  Can you get me a few examples?

Also, in your last screenshot, you are on the right track!  You've just got to look around the shop a bit ;)
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2016, 03:14:35 pm »
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I didn't have much time to test this morning but in 5 minutes the game broke three times >:( You can walk on many tiles where you shouldn't be able to walk like the river.
The bridge over the town shoul be retiled somehow so the player know that he can walk under it (at first I didn't realize that it was in a higher area). When walking into a house
(somewhere in the "rich" section of the town) the screen goes black. When pressing the right arrow the game crashes.  And somehow everything looks mixed up like it is not ment to be together. Maybe there should be some shading to change this.
However I like the demo all in all. I just wanted to point out what you should improve. I would really like to play a bugfixed version. :)

The river is known, we don't actually have water coded yet :(
bridge tiling noted.
Which house did you walk into to cause the black screen?
Were you indoors when the game crashed from right arrow?  That seems to be the only place I can recreate that one
Not quite sure what you mean by mixed up?  Could you provide some examples?
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 03:15:06 pm »
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first!  :P

doesnt work for me (Windows 7, 64-Bit)
i tried compability mode and admin rights, always the same

the fonts are installed

Any detailed error messages in there?
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2016, 03:17:53 pm »
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Tompel and 4ndakava, how was performance?  Was it laggy at any point?  Does input respond well?
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dotyue

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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2016, 03:23:53 pm »
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first!  :P

doesnt work for me (Windows 7, 64-Bit)
i tried compability mode and admin rights, always the same

the fonts are installed

Any detailed error messages in there?

no like in the screenshot of my post: it shows the window and says "KoT has stopped working"

edit: nevermind... there as a problem with the installation of the adobe dll thingy, it works now
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 03:31:41 pm by dotyue »
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2016, 03:28:13 pm »
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Ahh, this is doing to be difficult to debug.  I'll see what I can do.

EDIT: Did you install OpenAL?
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2016, 03:33:02 pm »
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Ahh, this is doing to be difficult to debug.  I'll see what I can do.

EDIT: Did you install OpenAL?

Yeah i did but somehow it didnt install complete or something... i tried it on my notbook with no issue and reinstalled it now it works
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 03:34:47 pm by dotyue »
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2016, 03:36:45 pm »
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Awesome, glad to hear!
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2016, 03:53:37 pm »
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I actually recorded a video of all the bugs I encountered, and Tompel covered some of them
Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D4Y41hV1dE&feature=youtu.be
So there are also some errors apart of the bugs, like there are hitboxes missing on the chairs inside the houses and the fountain... There are tiling errors and a bunch of stuff going on, I even went into the post office and I appeared in between the post office and fructo´s manner (Which I couldn´t go into for some reason :/) and then it looked like there was an invisible tunnel that took me to the post office, where it didn´t even look finished tiled.
The apartment to the left was locked and I coudn´t get in after I got inside the other 2.
I also think that there should be a little water animation when link walks on the puddles on the slums (like in castor wilds), and the water should be actual water, not painted floor that link can walk on like if he were Jesus xD
When I left the town through the bridge and then walked from the outside to a wall, Link just flew over everything, quite funny actually, and after this if you try to enter a house, the music plays and the hud appears, but the rest is pitch black.
For some reason, Link spinned randomly while i was playing, like if he were holding the sword and did a spin attack, but without the sword...
When you enter the old town caffee, there is no way to get out of it, you are stuck inside, so you have to turn the game off and on again.
One time a snake hit me and link went under the floor, and he could only move up and down, which was only the screen moving up and down, since link was no longer visible.

There are more bugs, and most of the ones I have said are on the video :3
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2016, 04:03:39 pm »
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That video is super helpful, good thinking!

Also, if someone could get to the boss with these issues in mind and see what breaks there, that would be great :) Not that this boss will be in the final game, but it will give me a good idea about what in the NPCs is unstable or needs attention.
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2016, 04:06:40 pm »
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That video is super helpful, good thinking!

Also, if someone could get to the boss with these issues in mind and see what breaks there, that would be great :) Not that this boss will be in the final game, but it will give me a good idea about what in the NPCs is unstable or needs attention.
How do you beat the boss? there are no hints on how to beat him.
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2016, 04:11:17 pm »
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I stop checking since brad did it more effective ;)

But here what i've found:

1 - You can walk out of the dialog (like in no other zelda) and even go into the "Rumplestilskin"-Cameo and get hurt

2 - You should check the Spawnpoints of the Player, in my example the player spawns a little bit to the right of the door so he can't fluidly enter/exit and when he exits he spawns 5 meters away from the door...

2b - When you go a little too far on the left side of the building and you enter it accidentally and brad told already the problem with that (#7 of his video)

3 - Bushy Cone-head-hair! or tiling error

X - Also: shouldnt the entrance steps be only accessable from the side you enter the door? feels like there are no "stones" on their sides
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2016, 04:12:56 pm »
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Quote
and even go into the "Rumplestilskin"-Cameo and get hurt

HEEYYY HE GOT THE REFERENCE!! :D

Issues noted, thanks!
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2016, 04:22:07 pm »
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Quote
and even go into the "Rumplestilskin"-Cameo and get hurt

HEEYYY HE GOT THE REFERENCE!! :D

Issues noted, thanks!

sure did (mild offtopic)

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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2016, 04:54:12 pm »
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This is sweet! I'm excited that we're in Hyrule Town now and and the barrel hiding feature popped up.

So, right off the bat, I feel like the HUD is kind of crowded. It might be better if the magic bar was above the hearts instead of below? Or maybe even in the bottom left, I just felt like I wanted to brush things out of the way of me seeing the town.

One of the other things I noticed is that the music loops a beat or two before the end, the last measure is one and two and three and... So it's a slightly jarring loop. I probably noticed that every loop, but also I've listened to it one thousand times before when I was writing it XD

I also didn't quite like the sword on the spacebar. If we're going left hand for movement and right hand for actions, when you've got your right hand on the arrows, you can't hit the spacebar, so your sword gets on your left and and you don't have that logical division of actions anymore, and you have to devote more of your brain's processing power to thinking "I need to attack! How do I attack? Which hand?" Instead of it being more subconscious like firing arrows.

I also had a pretty big handful of glitches. My framerate was pretty bad, if this was someone else's game I don't know if I would have kept playing for as long as I did, it was a little difficult to move around because everything was pretty laggy. I had a much better feeling with the old demo, if I recall correctly.



So, my first playthrough, I killed one snake, then got in the barrel and snuck past the dark link guy into Old Town Hyrule. But when I took the barrel off, I was invisible. So I tried swinging my sword, and I saw the sword, but I was still invisible then I got stuck in one spot and couldn't do anything.

My second playthrough, before killing any snakes, I talked to the man on the bench. After speaking to him, Rumpelstiltskin disappeared and a snake died. The snakes kept respawning infinitely, though. I went into the slum market and there were three or four snakes at all times, they never stopped. After killing a handful though, the cutscene with Ingo started so I followed him into the shop. I think the next scene went well, I tried to steal the fairy dust and got caught, then went to the boss battle. I kept shooting the clones of Rumpelstiltskin, but it didn't seem to have an effect and they eventually killed me. I didn't encounter any major glitches in the boss battle. After a while it seemed like they kept reappearing in the same place they just were, but that might be one of those coincidences where in a string of random numbers it's possible to have 20 fives in a row because randomness allows for that.

I also had a lot of problems with the spin attack. Every time I swung my sword, it charged a spin attack and I had to go through that pantomime before I could swing my sword again. I'd also be stuck facing whatever direction I was facing when swinging my sword until I spun around by pressing the sword button again. It'd be cool if you could rapidly swing your sword, like in nintendo's gameboy Zelda games, but everything was really slow for me.

My next playthrough, I just wandered around town looking for tiling errors and feeling the spaces out.

Tiling errors I could find in this playthough:

The Tavern in the slums, there's half of something purple to the left of the poster on the wall. The bottles aren't there yet either, dunno if they were supposed to be.

Ingo's shop, there's a floating corner of a dresser, you can see it in TomPel's screenshots.

Bottom left corner of the courtyard, south of Blind's Vault entrance. The East/West roof meets the North/South roof and there's a black blob. Also that grassy path is above the player.

Old Town Northwest courtyard, the building next to the bookshop is missing the door tile, it's just a wall framed by a doorway.

There's no way to leave the cafe in Old Town? I couldn't get out (was just wandering in the darkness to the right of the cafe) and decided that was a good stopping place for now.
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Re: Demo 2!
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2016, 05:08:47 pm »
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1. Agree, we can look into moving things around
2. Ugh this has been driving me NUTS!!!  If you play back the raw audio file, you'll see they loop perfectly, but SOMETHING in game (possibly even in Monogame) is making it skip the last beat.  No idea what yet!
3. I'm a bit confused here haha!  You should use your left thumb to hit the spacebar (just as many first person shooters do for jumping), the right hand shouldn't ever leave the arrow keys.
4. Still a slow framerate?! Jeez O_o Can you press B and get me a rough estimate of your update and draw time?  Also, system specs (CPU, RAM and graphics card) and if you're playing on a VM.
5. noted!
6. Oh that's all interesting lol.  I'll look into recreating this.
7. Ya, I forgot to remove the incomplete spin attack from the demo
8. noted!

EDIT: Ah, for the boss battle bit.  Everything there is going as expected, you're just not hitting the right one.  You'll know when you do, it'll be apparent.  As a note, it takes 2 hits on the real one to win.  I couldn't come up with a good indicator for which was real without making it too obvious unfortunately.
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