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What feature would you like to see in demo 21?

Weather effects
New overworld
An NPC filled town
Extra dungeon(s)
Extra boss(es)
Extra enemies
Streamlined / balanced desert dungeon
Streamlined / balanced green dungeon
Further improved performance
Overworld map
Something else (=read my post)

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Author Topic: Alttp - Horn of Balance  (Read 227216 times)

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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #300 on: November 07, 2010, 01:06:10 am »
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Thanks for the feedback FISSURE.

- The naming thing is like in the original, but I'll keep it in mind if I ever recode the starting screens.
- That one stair where you get stuck has been fixed in my personal demo (why does everybody try to go up there :huh:). I'll upload that demo once I'm done with the shock effects. That should be in roughly one week time from now.
- Could you tell me where it was, which weapon you had in hand and which color Stalfos died?
- This usefull information. Could you tell me the room and door you took? If it's the first time you entered that room then I'll have to adjust the enemy positioning or AI. If you just exited with a Stalfos on your tail and you reentered directly after then it's the way it's supposed to be. Also, did you get hit while you had not control over your character or only the instance you regained control?
- Saving does not work indeed. It's on my list (along with a million other things XD).

Here is last weeks progress btw:
- Tweaked the Pol's Voice AI some more (to repond better when getting hit).
- Finished the mechanic behind getting shocked by electric enemies (also possible through hitting the enemy with a sword/rod/shovel/net).
- Made progress on the "getting shocked" animation (I'm now at 20+ fps with a more consistent blurring effect, even when the screen moves).


Sorry, i can't seem to reproduce the two things i mentioned, the only one i know for sure that happened was the Stalfos spawning and hitting me when i entered the room, but i can't seem to find the right one anymore, i entered a room that looked like it but the Stalfos spawned away from me. I've tried a few times and neither the 1 kill hit nor the spawn thing seem to be happening >.<
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Brutus

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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #301 on: November 07, 2010, 02:53:05 am »
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the demo was fun for about a minute until it froze my computer
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #302 on: November 07, 2010, 08:43:52 am »
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Sorry, i can't seem to reproduce the two things i mentioned, the only one i know for sure that happened was the Stalfos spawning and hitting me when i entered the room, but i can't seem to find the right one anymore, i entered a room that looked like it but the Stalfos spawned away from me. I've tried a few times and neither the 1 kill hit nor the spawn thing seem to be happening >.<

Killing a stalfos in one hit will happen if you are playing with the upgraded sword I believe. It's like that in the original as well.

The spawning I can't help you with then. The stalfos enemies are programmed to move about random so it may indeed be hard to reproduce a previous situation exactly. If you can give me your best guess (who/where) then maybe I can look into that.


the demo was fun for about a minute until it froze my computer

Sounds more like an issue with your computer since you're the first to mention this. If you believe this is something I can fix on my end then I'll need more information. Stuff like: At what point did it freeze up? Did it actually freeze or was it just terrible slow? Did you do anything before? Can you reproduce it? Did you properly unpack the entire game from the compacted folder?
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #303 on: November 07, 2010, 10:54:02 am »
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Why in the Link game, can you lift up one of the heaviest rocks?
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #304 on: November 07, 2010, 11:02:01 am »
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Okay I tried out your latest demo 0.10.8 I think. And these are my remarks.

- Serious lag when cutting grass and destroying pots or enemies.

- Link is standing on top of a statue instead of behind (see picture).

- Error message happend in windows XP, after Crtl+Alt+Del and starting the task manager. Then going back to the game. Second came after pressing ignore.
 
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 2
of Draw Event
for object obj_Terrain_Effects:

Trying to use non-existing surface.

___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 2
of Draw Event
for object obj_Overhead_Menu:

Trying to use non-existing surface.


It also happens when entering and exiting the test area too often.

- Some unexplained actions happened. Link did a sword charge and than a spin attack, while moving down and faceing left. This happened without me touching any keys.

- The long I kept playing the more sluggish the game became and the more unresponsive to the keys it became. Which made it difficult to time the strikes on enemie right and Link often kept bumping into them without moving out. But my laptop isn't the fastest anymore, as it is already 4 years old. Although the task manager indicated that it only used about 50% CPU time and no I don't have a dual core. My laptop is still a single core.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 11:03:38 am by Niek »
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Mamoruanime

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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #305 on: November 07, 2010, 11:13:07 am »
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I get those surface errors any time I enter the dungeon. IMO I don't think GM handles surfaces well at all, and I wouldn't doubt if they became depreciated in the next GM incarnation for a better system.
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #306 on: November 07, 2010, 02:31:14 pm »
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Why in the Link game, can you lift up one of the heaviest rocks?

Because he has the needed gloves in his inventory at that time.


- Serious lag when cutting grass and destroying pots or enemies.

- Link is standing on top of a statue instead of behind (see picture).

- Error message happend in windows XP, after Crtl+Alt+Del and starting the task manager. Then going back to the game. Second came after pressing ignore.
 
___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 2
of Draw Event
for object obj_Terrain_Effects:

Trying to use non-existing surface.

___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 2
of Draw Event
for object obj_Overhead_Menu:

Trying to use non-existing surface.


It also happens when entering and exiting the test area too often.

- Some unexplained actions happened. Link did a sword charge and than a spin attack, while moving down and faceing left. This happened without me touching any keys.

- The long I kept playing the more sluggish the game became and the more unresponsive to the keys it became. Which made it difficult to time the strikes on enemie right and Link often kept bumping into them without moving out. But my laptop isn't the fastest anymore, as it is already 4 years old. Although the task manager indicated that it only used about 50% CPU time and no I don't have a dual core. My laptop is still a single core.

Seems like you discovered quit a bit. I'll try to take some time to look at them in more depth after my exams. For now:
-The destroying of bushes should not result in a slowdown (obviously XD). The only plausable thing that happens is a check wether or not the ground needs to be edited (draw the stump if cut and dirt if pulled up). Maybe that's the problem. Does this happen constantly from the very beginning of the game or only after you played a bit.
-The visual error behind the statue is known. There is an easy solution (like they did in alttp), but I know it's more of an illusion rather of an solution, so I plan on redoing the entire depth system to handle such issues. That is quit a bit of work so you'll have to bare with it for a long time.
-Ctrl+Alt+Del has that problem and I often use it as a means to cut off a frozen game during development. This is a result of how GM handles surfaces. A screensaver or in this case Ctrl+Alt+Del clears all surfaces. I'll see what I can do when I find the time.
-I need some info on the unexplained action. Can you recreate it and how did you do it? It sounds like a serious glitch.
-The slowdown sounds pretty serious as well. Could you do some testwork for me, maybe? Pressing Ctrl+Alt+Del before starting the game and then checking the CPU % at the start and during the game. (You can also look at the framerate number in the header but that's far less accurate). I'd do it myself but I haven't noticed such a slowdown on my own computer at all. I'm hoping the problem is caused by a surface or something I'm forgetting to free after use. If not, then I currently have no idea what the cause might be.


I get those surface errors any time I enter the dungeon. IMO I don't think GM handles surfaces well at all, and I wouldn't doubt if they became depreciated in the next GM incarnation for a better system.

How bizar. Could you post the error messages? If they are exactly the same as what Niek has then there is little I can do. Except maybe not use surfaces.
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #307 on: November 07, 2010, 08:12:05 pm »
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Quote
-Ctrl+Alt+Del has that problem and I often use it as a means to cut off a frozen game during development. This is a result of how GM handles surfaces. A screensaver or in this case Ctrl+Alt+Del clears all surfaces. I'll see what I can do when I find the time.

Handle this by checking if the surface exists before you draw it. (surface_exists()) If not, redraw the surface. Since surfaces are used in video RAM only, whenever the Direct3D device is reset (like for eg. Ctrl+Alt+Del, or screen savers), it clears those surfaces from video memory. This has always been a common DirectX thing.
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #308 on: November 07, 2010, 08:48:38 pm »
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Thanks for the advise. I'd have to change the current use of the surface a little but it should work.
The problem I'm forseeing though is in the actual redrawing of the sprites. The overhead is easy enough but the dug up ground is a whole other story. It's a lot of options to go through which I normally mask by building the ground as you go (= only drawing the piece of ground you just dug up). I could still go through with it and then the player would get a slow framerate for a minute or so when they get back (which, granted, is still far better then errors). I'm also walking around with the idea of storing the surfaces as sprites while the game is inactive but I'm not sure if that's doable, timingwise.
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #309 on: November 07, 2010, 09:11:55 pm »
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-The destroying of bushes should not result in a slowdown (obviously XD). The only plausable thing that happens is a check wether or not the ground needs to be edited (draw the stump if cut and dirt if pulled up). Maybe that's the problem. Does this happen constantly from the very beginning of the game or only after you played a bit.
The slow down happens right from the start of the game and the more patches you cut the longer the lag is.

-I need some info on the unexplained action. Can you recreate it and how did you do it? It sounds like a serious glitch.
-The slowdown sounds pretty serious as well. Could you do some testwork for me, maybe? Pressing Ctrl+Alt+Del before starting the game and then checking the CPU % at the start and during the game. (You can also look at the framerate number in the header but that's far less accurate). I'd do it myself but I haven't noticed such a slowdown on my own computer at all. I'm hoping the problem is caused by a surface or something I'm forgetting to free after use. If not, then I currently have no idea what the cause might be.
I was unable to reproduce the error. But what it seemed to me that at one point GM seems to que the key presses/releases and catches up from the lag and at another point it completely ignored it. I once could do a sword charge by rapidly pressing the sword key.

In the taskmanager the game had a CPU usage between 40% and 60% and the memory usage seemed to be stable as well. But the framerate indicator sometimes dropped to 10-14 frames and was most of the time about 22-24 frames and occasionally 30.

I''l try to come with details later, but now it is bed time. Have to get out 6 am again.
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Brutus

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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #310 on: November 07, 2010, 10:39:51 pm »
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I used IZARC but I didn't unpack the file at all. It just froze and when I tried to close it it just said not responding for about ten minutes, and then I just shut my computer down and after that it was fine
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #311 on: November 08, 2010, 09:42:45 am »
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-The destroying of bushes should not result in a slowdown (obviously XD). The only plausable thing that happens is a check wether or not the ground needs to be edited (draw the stump if cut and dirt if pulled up). Maybe that's the problem. Does this happen constantly from the very beginning of the game or only after you played a bit.
The slow down happens right from the start of the game and the more patches you cut the longer the lag is.

I tried the game on my own laptop (which also isn't stellar) and I got a simular slowdown. When standing outside the default framerate for me is 30fps. The flying tile decreases that to around 26fps, or at least it seems that way. Picking up stones or cutting grass decreases it as well. The reason for these last two is because the ground get's updated. The ground data get pulled from an external file and edited into a temporary external file. I might be able to speed things up if I discard the temporary external file and save all the grounddata in an object. Since I didn't have any performance issues I figured I'd save some memory. (I'll have to check that out if I find more time).
I'm using the text format for saving the data since I can't use a two dimensional array and each piece of land has more then ten possible states. Each row of land may consist of more then 128 blocks (meaning > 3 screens wide) so the use of numbers will need a pretty clever solution to work.

A little spinoff: The framerate is now better for rooms where you can not dig (my framerate increased from 12 fps to 15 fps). This is because I now discard the groundsurfaces completely in rooms that don't need them. It's completely useless for computers without performance issues, but that's beside the point. XD

Edit: After some testing I believe the slowly decreasing speed should have been fixed (or at least be a little better now). There were two instances in some older coding where I did not properly free up used surfaces. That's fixed now.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 10:28:45 am by Martijn dh »
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #312 on: November 11, 2010, 11:12:19 am »
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Sorry for the double post but the exams are over. Man, they sure didn't hold any punches this time around, but whatever. I've got more time to work on the game again.

Here is an overview of the recent comments and there status (I'll post it in the first post as well):

1. Game can become more sluggish as it progresses
--> Surfaces are freed up more thoroughly in the next demo. This should improve memory consumption a little.

2. Weird thing happen with the keys pressed while the game has slow framerate. This possibly due to the manor in which Gamemaker tries to catch up, with the key having been pressed, when it falls behind.
--> I'll remember the issue for now. A solution might be to handle keycommands in a different manor. Changing such a thing is easier as I continue tidying up the engine/coding. The problem also sounds like a result of very slow framerate so I'm not sure how many people have these issues and what priority I should give it.

3. A surface error happens when entering and exiting the dungeon too many times.
--> Solution in progress. Repeating the exact same action several times in a row should basically net you the exact same result several times in a row. I'm unsure why this is not the case. Maybe it's a Gamemaker problem with surfaces. :huh:

4. On slower computers serious lag may occur when you cut up (multiple) grass, pots or enemies.
--> I'm unsure why this happens with enemies, but I'll see if I can work on removing the slowdown for grass (and possibly pots). When objects like grass get destroyed the ground is edited. This is done by reading an external file and editing that data in a new temporary file. The reason for reading the external data every time you destroy something is to spread out getting the data as oppossed to reading in everything the instance you enter a new room (that could currently result in slowdown on better computers as well). I'll work on this problem.

5. Pressing Ctrl+Alt+Del deletes all surfaces (= Gamemaker mechanic), resulting in errors.
--> I'll see what I can do. Half the problem should already be solved when number 3 is finished.

6. Link looks like he is standing in front of a statue while standing behind it (= reoccuring problem with various other objects as well).
--> Solving this properly will require a thorough rewrite of some mechanics. This one will be pushed back to a later date.

7. The walkingsound will sometimes continue the loop while Link has stopped.
--> No solution ready right now.

8. The items created by flying skulls can not always be collected.
--> This happens if the items are created on a different floor then you are standing. Fixing it will required quite a bit of time but may also result in solutions for a slight problem with the Pol's Voice.

9. The dungeon can currently be done out of order resulting in unclear goals and closed doors you can walk through.
--> I'll try to adress this before releasing the next demo. This will require me to finish the firerod's magic and torches to light.


Brutus: The only thing that I can advise is that you try again. Not unpacking everything like intended might also result in weird behaviour. I've never tried it.


Edit: fixed issue number three (and one a bit more as well). There was another large surface that was not freed up properly which somehow resulted in the surfaces getting deleted all together. Maybe the overall memory needed for surfaces became to large for Gamemaker as it was a pretty bad memoryleak.

Edit2: Improved some mechanics and that eliminated the temporary decrease in framerate when I cut up multiple bushes at once (on my slow laptop). I'm unsure if this will also fully fix Niek's problem since his decrease was worse, but that will have to be tested when a next demo comes out. I'm considering number 4 closed for now.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 10:22:31 pm by Martijn dh »
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #313 on: November 21, 2010, 08:12:39 pm »
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This weeks progress:
+ The hud now moves along with the item menu when it appears
+ Masks for overlaying bridges have been removed and replaced by a different system
+ The body of a headless skeleton no longer continuesly drifts away after taking a hit
+ Skeletons no longer jump out of the way from your actions if they are on a different floor
+ You now have a short recovery time after falling into an endless hole
+ Added a new system to determine the level of depth for items created by flying skulls
+ Fixed graphic errors with shadows during pause (FINALLY XD)

All of this took a whole lot longer then I first thought it would so I did not have time to implement the new skeleton sprites. Guess I'll wait till those are fully finished then. It would make more sense anyway.

I also worked on the Ctrl+Alt+Del problem a little, but I'm not going to continue with it. This is because I have yet to think up one solution for all possible problems that might occur with that combination. Maybe I'll take it up at a later date.

I'm also looking for at least one good tester. The changes made this week required several changes to the engine's code so it would be good to check if nothing got broken because of that. If anybody is interested then feel free to respond. I will not present a general new demo because the changes made so far are too minor to warrant it.
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #314 on: December 01, 2010, 01:59:18 pm »
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Added new things in Soldier Shrine room tiles:

[imgzoom]http://piczasso.com/i/e3yc3.png[/imgzoom]

-Sign of real family in soil
-New entry
-Stone description
-2 lamps
-New Stairs

I think that it remains better than the current room.

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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #315 on: December 01, 2010, 06:59:37 pm »
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This is a welcome surprise. I'll take your suggestions into consideration.
- The lights look better then the pots I placed there, though I'll probably use the default sprites.
- The entrance looks normal, not at all as if you're entering a dungeon. I like that. That was what I was going for. I like the ground there better also.
- The triforce ground symbol doesn't match the story, but it's very cool non the less. I'll probably keep it. You made this?
- The gravestone doesn't really fit. Also because the stairs on the right will only appear after you solve a little puzzle later on. I do know of another location where I could be more suited though.
- The stair I'll have to check the rest of the dungeon for first. I value consistency so I'll have to see what the rest of the dungeon would need changed to match this.

If you want to do more then feel free to tell me (again :) ). I'm pretty much teamless right now so the help would be welcome.
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #316 on: December 02, 2010, 10:17:50 pm »
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Posible new things to be added:

[imgzoom]http://piczasso.com/i/k35lv.png[/imgzoom]

Room A:
-Change statues in the walls (custom statues, not the typical)
-Change big chest --> small chest (Like the original)
-Change Symbol in the soil

Room B (Posible New Room):
-Puzle of statues, to open the door (You will have to programme if you want to add it in your game)

Mini boss room (Other posible room):
-Miniboss: Poe with sword and Poe with lantern (mising in the pic). You will have to programme...
-Dark Room



*A couple of questions about this game:

  -The Soldier Shrine will have some boss / miniboss?
  -Is Soldier Shrine the first dungeon?
  -That item will obtain in the Soldier Shrine? (Roc feather, Pegasus boots, boomerang...)
  -Where Soldier Shrine will be located?
  -Which is the aim in the history of Soldier Shrine?


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Mamoruanime

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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #317 on: December 02, 2010, 10:38:54 pm »
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Added new things in Soldier Shrine room tiles:

[imgzoom]http://piczasso.com/i/e3yc3.png[/imgzoom]

-Sign of real family in soil
-New entry
-Stone description
-2 lamps
-New Stairs

I think that it remains better than the current room.



Looked like a nice contribution but the bottom comment is a little rude :P
Also I feel that particular variant is way too cluttered. Too much going on in one area.

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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #318 on: December 03, 2010, 06:35:09 am »
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Room A:
-Change statues in the walls (custom statues, not the typical)
-Change big chest --> small chest (Like the original)
-Change Symbol in the soil

Room B (Posible New Room):
-Puzle of statues, to open the door (You will have to programme if you want to add it in your game)

Mini boss room (Other posible room):
-Miniboss: Poe with sword and Poe with lantern (mising in the pic). You will have to programme...
-Dark Room



*A couple of questions about this game:

  -The Soldier Shrine will have some boss / miniboss?
  -Is Soldier Shrine the first dungeon?
  -That item will obtain in the Soldier Shrine? (Roc feather, Pegasus boots, boomerang...)
  -Where Soldier Shrine will be located?
  -Which is the aim in the history of Soldier Shrine?


I appreciate your attempt to help but I'm not going to use this.
- There already is a subboss room and concept (though I might remember your idea for a different dungeon)
- The puzzle room can't be used because all the rooms in the dungeon are already thought out (though I might remember your idea for a different dungeon)
- The changes to the treasure room I don't like.

If you really wish to help then it's better to work WITH me, rather then try to correct me. Some specific rooms still need to be filled in and there is also the overworld, hyrule castle and 2nd dungeon that I've started designing (highover for now).

To awnser your questions:
-The Soldier Shrine will have some boss / miniboss?
A: Yes, both. I'm still thinking out the details before I start programming.

-Is Soldier Shrine the first dungeon?
A: Yes. It's the first official dungeon.

-That item will obtain in the Soldier Shrine? (Roc feather, Pegasus boots, boomerang...)
A: The boots. They can already be collected in the current demo (regardless of which savefile you use).

-Where Soldier Shrine will be located?
A: In the south east mountains.

-Which is the aim in the history of Soldier Shrine?
A: Warriors and the king of the nearby kingdom are buried here. The shrine's first room is a ... well a shrine really. A puzzle will later need to be solved to see any more.The rest of the dungeon is a combination of traps, maze-like design and other dangers to protect the king's grave. You encounter various more soldierstatues inside. In life, these where the closest to the king and there presence is symbolic in that they still "gaurd" the path to him.
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Re: [Demo] Tech demo - Horn of Balance (working ...
« Reply #319 on: December 03, 2010, 01:03:26 pm »
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ok. if you can give me any map that is not finished and I will attempt to terminate (room design) or any idea to complete a map (sprite + designer). For example overworld map, Soldier Shrine overworld design, dungeon maps or Other sprites (npc's, enemies...). I show the map made and I give the tiles used. Pass the map reference or ideas by mail if you want. I do not know another way to help, tell me exactly where you want to help. I do not know how to help.

I do not try to correct anything in your game or change your game, just try to do better and more varied (New sprites, new things from Other zelda games and new mechanics not seen in ALTP), not always the same mechanical ALTP and same graphics, but without losing the style ALTP.

Thanks for answering questions and forgive me if I was rude.

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