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Author Topic: [Revise] The Seven Deadly Thieves  (Read 5040 times)

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Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2012, 03:47:36 am »
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I've been thinking on this. If they steal you the items, and you want to go back to the main quest, you don't have the item, so this will HAVE to be completed, and won't be a side-quest.
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Twilight Alchemist

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Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2012, 03:54:29 am »
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I've been thinking on this. If they steal you the items, and you want to go back to the main quest, you don't have the item, so this will HAVE to be completed, and won't be a side-quest.

It will be like the Take 'em all on Mini Game....
Then again, I could just change it to a mini game.
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Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2012, 03:55:29 am »
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I've been thinking on this. If they steal you the items, and you want to go back to the main quest, you don't have the item, so this will HAVE to be completed, and won't be a side-quest.

It will be like the Take 'em all on Mini Game....
Then again, I could just change it to a mini game.

Well, you could ask MG or someone if this can be added to the main story.
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Twilight Alchemist

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Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2012, 03:59:04 am »
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I've been thinking on this. If they steal you the items, and you want to go back to the main quest, you don't have the item, so this will HAVE to be completed, and won't be a side-quest.

It will be like the Take 'em all on Mini Game....
Then again, I could just change it to a mini game.

Well, you could ask MG or someone if this can be added to the main story.

 :o Really?
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"Oh! The Rock of Death, my mortal enemy! I'll deal with you later rock." Later "Oh! Rock of Death! We meet again. Well this time things will go differently, cause I'm not five years old any more, AND THERE IS NO BANANA!" - ???
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Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2012, 03:59:59 am »
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I said ask, not that they would accept it.
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Twilight Alchemist

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Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2012, 04:03:03 am »
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I still kinda really dislike the blatant grab from FMA :/

How is it still a blatant grab from FMA? I've changed it.
The Seven Deadly Sins existed before FMA. If it is the personality, the homunculi personality is pulled from their 'sin'.

Oh, trust me I know about the seven sins and how they have existed before FMA. I've read into them quite thoroughly and their links to the seven princes of hell mentioned in Paradise Lost. I did indeed notice you changed some of them but Pride is still "a short boy with black hair" with strike attacks that remind me of FMA's Pride.

I would suggest you read more on Pride. Pride is very egocentric, very in your face. It is a very flamboyant sin, aka I don't feel like the character should simply have black hair. I created a version of Pride for my game idea that has long, flowing, extravagant blond hair and an almost permanent smile (I do not suggest stealing my idea, thanks). I just do not feel like your Pride suits the sin description.

Also, so far each of your sins steals only one main item....while Envy can claim most of them? To me, this just sounds unbalanced and quite frankly, OP.

Oh, I get ya. I can change the hair.
Pride still has slash like attacks mainly so he can use the Pursuit Slash with the Shadow Cloak.
Envy stole all your items and passed them out to the other 5 (You don't fight Lust)
Envy gets the Bow and it's Arrows. He is the first you fight.
Wrath gets the Bomb Cannon. He is the second you fight.
Gluttony gets the Hookshot. He is the third you fight.
Pride gets the Shadow Cloak. He is the fourth you fight.
Greed gets your shield and the Boomerang. He is the fifth you fight.
Sloth gets the Magnetic Gloves. He is the last you fight.
Lust is in a village, using a AoL thing (Come inside). If you follow her in side your health will completely filled, but Lust will steal half your rupees.

When you defeat one of them you get the item they stole, The Bow and Arrows being the most important.

Wouldn't it make more sense if Greed steals half your rupees...

Well, I found a way to use Greed as a foe, but I couldn't figure out a way for Lust to fight you.

I said ask, not that they would accept it.
Didn't know I could ask.
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"Oh! The Rock of Death, my mortal enemy! I'll deal with you later rock." Later "Oh! Rock of Death! We meet again. Well this time things will go differently, cause I'm not five years old any more, AND THERE IS NO BANANA!" - ???
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Starforsaken101

Wake the Beast
Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2012, 04:13:23 am »
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Blaze brought up a good point...personally I don't feel this fits in the main story :/ and there are quite a few design flaws that could open up.
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Twilight Alchemist

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Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2012, 04:16:33 am »
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Blaze brought up a good point...personally I don't feel this fits in the main story :/ and there are quite a few design flaws that could open up.

That is why I said Side Quest or Mini Game. Tell me which flaws and I will try to fix them.
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(>'.')> <('.')> <('.'<) <(  )>
"Oh! The Rock of Death, my mortal enemy! I'll deal with you later rock." Later "Oh! Rock of Death! We meet again. Well this time things will go differently, cause I'm not five years old any more, AND THERE IS NO BANANA!" - ???
My PZE account: http://zeldaengine.net/user-112.html
If you're going to be Mr. FMA over here,
Shadow of Termina spriter
http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=39913.0
Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2012, 09:18:39 am »
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Hmm, the seven deadly sins can be a good addition to the game, however of the four presented here I think the execution is still lacking. First I don't know FMA so I wouldn't know what is copied and what not. Here are my points:

1) They are all boys. To me it seems they are either children or teenagers. I would have liked to see some adults as well. Especially when I think of pride I would consider a tall, handsome aristoctratic man who looks down upon everyone, because they don't have the looks or skills he has.  My point don't make them all boys.

2) They are all boys. Yup, it sounds like I am repeating my first point. But this time it is the gender that I am have a problem with. Why aren't there any female deadly thieves. Especially Lust and Envy seem like good candidates for female characters (okay let the bashing by the females begin :P ).

3) Wrath seems to me like it should be one of the last thieves you need to fight, as he would be taking vengeance on you for defeatin/killing/vanquishing the other deadly thieves.

4) I think the surroundings of each thieve where you fight them should also reflect their sin. Could you please add some description of the surroundings, which make the sin recognizable.


Okay, I really like the seven deadly sins idea.  It has a lot of potential. However they are all boys now, which makes them pretty boring. I have to agree with star in that it does not fit well with main story. However I do think it could be an after story, for when you have finished the game once. Like a second quest or something. That when you start up the game once, you have defeated ganon and saved the game, you will bump into Envy (or any if not all other thieves) and get your items stolen. Someone in Castle Town may have heard about the thieves and he will provide you with the 7 locations in Hyrule where you can go into mini dungeons and fight each one of the bastards.


But those are just my two cents. Keep up the good work. I like the potential this idea has and love to see what is realized. XD 
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thestig

Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2012, 09:21:43 am »
I've been thinking on this. If they steal you the items, and you want to go back to the main quest, you don't have the item, so this will HAVE to be completed, and won't be a side-quest.

It will be like the Take 'em all on Mini Game....
Then again, I could just change it to a mini game.

Well, you could ask MG or someone if this can be added to the main story.
Depends. I'm a little spotty on this idea.. and excuse me because it's 5AM and I'm only writing this cause I just can't sleep.

Quote

Name: Gluttony
HP: 3
Location: The Seven Deadly's Hideout
Description: A short fat boy with brown hair who steals only food and will protect it at all costs. Wields your Hookshot. Part of a side quest, he is the third one you fight. After you defeat him you get the Hookshot back
Attacks:   Bite - 2 Heart Pieces
              Gluttony will try to bite Link.

              Hookshot - 1 Heart Piece
               Gluttony will shoot the hookshot at Link, if it hits then Gluttony is pulled to Link, if it misses then Gluttony is pulled to the wall where he will be stunned.
If you're going to be Mr. FMA over here, then at least emulate the character properly. Gluttony would've just simply ate the hookshot. He's too fat to do anything useful except eat. That's probably why he's called "Gluttony".

Quote
-Sword is the only thing that will damage him
-Bomb Cannon will stun him.
Why. Since he's likes to eat stuff, might as well make it so that the bombs are his weakness.. and the sword for stunning.

Now my C+C just on Gluttony alone is based on the assumption we would be alright with using a bunch of references to FMA. Me personally, I'm a bit skeptical about it. I think it would be more fun to only have one reference to FMA in regards to character design and go custom with the other ones.. these characters just aren't making sense to me. Take for example:

Quote
Description: A tall boy with dark brown hair, he steals all your main quest items (except the sword and thief bracer). Part of a side quest, he is the first one you fight. After you defeat him you get your Bow back.
Description: A boy with blonde hair who gets angry when someone tries to take is stuff.
So what does the second description imply? At first I was under the impression that the kids stole your !@#$% but from what you're telling me with Wrath's description, Link stole something of his? I'm just saying, its implied and I am looking for absolute clarity here.


There's not much anyone really can say about this design. You should look into foiling it out more and perhaps give a bit more reason behind these characters. It may be just some side quest... for something, but for what? And what's the why with these characters? Where do they hail from? And what alignment are they part of? Rich, poor? Their own? Gerudo?

At what part of the game does this side quest become available?
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Starforsaken101

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Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2012, 12:10:00 pm »
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Quite honestly, I think you need to make some more research about the seven sins. I feel like your descriptions are flawed. As I discussed with gm112 last night, Gluttony only wants to eat. You could make him like a Dodongo: he'll swallow the bombs launched at him.

As Niek described, it would be nice to have a few of them be female...but i'm not going to go into the whole male vs. female, oh females are more envious and lustful than men thing :P. Personally, Lust being a man would make sense, and it would be seriously cool to see Wrath as a female. This would be making them less stereotypical. I equally like Niek's idea of Pride being an aristocratic man.

There is so much potential behind this design but I feel like it lacks all sorts of knowledge. I feel like the only thing you know about the seven sins are the homonculi in FMA. Wrath isn't based on temper. Gluttony isn't solely based on his size. Lust's goal isn't normally money...quite honestly, why would Pride steal the shadow cloak? Pride doesn't want to hide; he wants to clearly be seen doing wrong.

Anyway, I can go on for hours, and I'm sorry if all of this sounds harsh as it is not my goal. I would do proper research before continuing.

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Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2012, 02:50:19 pm »
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I know you intended to do it as a side-quest, but you didn't consider that if they steal your items you can't procced with the story. And then, to recover them, you need to complete this side-quest. But you need to do this to proceed in the story, so you're making be it in the main story.
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thestig

Re: [Submission] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2012, 03:45:45 pm »
I know you intended to do it as a side-quest, but you didn't consider that if they steal your items you can't procced with the story. And then, to recover them, you need to complete this side-quest. But you need to do this to proceed in the story, so you're making be it in the main story.
Side-quests are part of the main story regardless.. they're only placed in their own category due to importance. While you lose your quest items, the quest itself isn't mandatory and therefore it still constitutes as a side quest.

I think OP here has to come up with a more original design to satisfy everyone.. because what's being thrown out there really isn't much and doesn't mesh well together. Or someone has to.. Twilight, it's cool if you throw an FMA reference maybe one time but the rest of the design's gotta make sense. Right now all I see are different characters with virtually no ground to them. If it weren't for the FMA reference, there would be nothing to this. That being said, I have a suggestion to make.. you could perhaps make the "Seven Deadly Thieves" Poe's(or ghosts rather) of an old Gerudo thieving gang that got murdered by the atrocities of Ganon. Just a suggestion... is all.
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Starforsaken101

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Re: [Revise] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2012, 06:58:24 pm »
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Alright, TA hasn't touched this...and I really really feel like this idea has a LOT of potential!

Here are some ideas I just came up with: what if we put one thief guarding the entry of each region or dungeon? Or in the middle of a region right before unlocking a new point in the story? Or we could just stick them with the side-quests, I don't know.

As for appearance, really, I think the concept artists could come up with something here. Rethinking here, I don't know if it matters if Twilight Alchemist designs their appearance too much.

Let's bring up the more recent post from Twilight Alchemist about the abilities and go through what needs revision:

Quote
Pride still has slash like attacks mainly so he can use the Pursuit Slash with the Shadow Cloak.
Envy stole all your items and passed them out to the other 5 (You don't fight Lust)
Envy gets the Bow and it's Arrows. He is the first you fight.
Wrath gets the Bomb Cannon. He is the second you fight.
Gluttony gets the Hookshot. He is the third you fight.
Pride gets the Shadow Cloak. He is the fourth you fight.
Greed gets your shield and the Boomerang. He is the fifth you fight.
Sloth gets the Magnetic Gloves. He is the last you fight.
Lust is in a village, using a AoL thing (Come inside). If you follow her in side your health will completely filled, but Lust will steal half your rupees.

I think Lust should be fightable and ideally female. I think what should happen is Lust lures Link in with her charm and you would begin the fight with half your health, since she just leeched it off of you.

We need to either elaborate or scrap the design altogether. Please discuss. If this does not make it, I will make sure to try and design something new because this 7 sins idea is kinda neat.
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Re: [Revise] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2012, 07:33:26 pm »
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Well, Twilight Alchemist, your last post was in July, so unless you come in and provide opinions, I think we should just alter this to suit the game best.

From your post, Star, we've kinda got the choice of scattering them to different dungeons all over the world, or keeping them in one place. I think it makes sense that if they're scattered all over the world, we'd have to order them in such a way that the item they steal, you actually have before you fight them. Not that this would be hard to do.

I think that the decision about whether to have it as an all-at-once battle vs a find one in each region sidequest should be made based primarily on the reward you get, and should also dictate somethings about their personality, like whether they're evil or just regular thieves.

This is all kinda scattered, but here's some random thoughts:

I like GM's idea of having them as Poes in the Gerudo desert or somewhere, who were killed during Ganon's reign, or alternatively, who died out after Ganon's reign. Suppose they were all haunting their old hideout in the desert, you could go in, have your items stolen, and then one you defeat them all, you'd get a cool reward like the Hurricane Spin move, or an upgrade to your pickpocketing speed.

We could also have them as a legendary band of thieves, who each guards one of the teleport hideout places. You'd go through a mini-dungeon to get to the boss room, they'd steal one of your items, then once you defeat them and prove your worth, they'd allow you to teleport to the hideout. Personally, I like the idea of the teleport hideouts as derelict and abandoned better, though.

Or they could even be a rival gang in Hyrule City. You'd gain access to their hideout after gaining all the items, and then you could go there, have your items stolen, defeat them all, and 1) they'd stop picking on your gang, and 2) you'd gain the use of some of their hideout, which could give you access to hidden places in Hyrule city, or shortcuts from one part of town to another. This method could also lend itself to having a sword attack learned or thief skill upgrade.

 Or also, perhaps the 7 Sins could be old sword masters. You'd learn new sword moves by visiting their hideouts or whatever and upon defeating them, you'd be taught a sword move / thief skill.
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Re: [Revise] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2012, 09:15:27 pm »
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In all honesty TA hasn't updated or posted since July. SO before we hijack this topic. I think it is better to make a competing submission. And then either leave this one be or reject it. 
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Starforsaken101

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Re: [Revise] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2012, 10:09:02 pm »
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In all honesty TA hasn't updated or posted since July. SO before we hijack this topic. I think it is better to make a competing submission. And then either leave this one be or reject it.

Good idea, Niek!
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Re: [Revise] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2012, 07:26:31 pm »
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Okay, agreed. Maybe we could each make one, so that different facets of this idea could be explored. And then if two or three even are good enough, we could alter some of them and incorporate all of them, even!
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Starforsaken101

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Re: [Revise] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2012, 07:32:29 pm »
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Okay, agreed. Maybe we could each make one, so that different facets of this idea could be explored. And then if two or three even are good enough, we could alter some of them and incorporate all of them, even!

Sure. That sounds good with me. Maybe we could mix our ideas into one ginormous really good idea
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Twilight Alchemist

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Re: [Revise] The Seven Deadly Thieves
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2013, 11:38:09 pm »
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You guys can take over the thread, you guys got some awesome ideas.
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(>'.')> <('.')> <('.'<) <(  )>
"Oh! The Rock of Death, my mortal enemy! I'll deal with you later rock." Later "Oh! Rock of Death! We meet again. Well this time things will go differently, cause I'm not five years old any more, AND THERE IS NO BANANA!" - ???
My PZE account: http://zeldaengine.net/user-112.html
If you're going to be Mr. FMA over here,
Shadow of Termina spriter
http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=39913.0
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