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Author Topic: Saddam Is Dead  (Read 4445 times)

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Saddam Is Dead
« on: January 02, 2007, 02:04:16 am »
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Now that Saddam Hussein is dead by hanging, what do you think the repercussions are going to be in Iraq, if any?
Did he recieve fair justice, or was the court unbalanced?  What will happen to the troops still over there, will the "war's" course change for the better/worse?  What are your opinions of this subject?

Mod Edit- I'm sorry Bearer but I gotta remove the video link from your post. We were having a mod discussion about the topic of Saddam and Andrew just doesn't want videos/pictures dealing with the subject posted since the may be disturbing to some people and we just don't want to cause any sort of chaos with it. Discussion is fine, just he doesn't want images and videos displayed or linked to.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 02:16:18 am by CrystalAngel04 »
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2007, 02:29:34 am »
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I find it weird that people make such a big deal about his death. It just proves that he is a much more important person than the people that died in combat (both so called "terrorists" and Americans and everyone else involved). Seriously, they all died, but at least his death was more formal, and probably less painful and instant. In the news it says "x number of people died in combat" at the same time it says "Saddam is dead" (and so did your topic ;) ). Why the hell do we make him so damn important? It would be better if they just killed him in "combat" like they did with everyone else and increase x by one. It would make so much more sense.

This whole thing is so messed up FROM THE BEGINNING, that I can't have a real opinion on it. I just know that things could have been done differently from the start and we wouldn't even have the damn problem to begin with. I don't think the problem was Saddam, and his death is not the end of the problem. The problem is the beginning, and there's no way they can fix it now. They can try to make it seem like it is fixed but it is not. And I honestly think that those who tries to "fix" this problem are actually those who started it...
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2007, 02:40:03 am »
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What are you talking about?  To be blunt, Saddam was like Hitler, he was responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians and started 3 wars.  I'm not saying that the deaths of soldiers aren't important, but when a menacing dictator (who, again, is the cause of the US being in Iraq) is put to death by the hands of the very people he oppressed, it's a tad more meaningful at the moment (as it relates to the world in general).
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2007, 02:48:19 am »
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1) Iraqi's will continue to fight Iraqi's, blind sighted to the fact American troops still occupy their land. They are fighting based on built up religious pressure from the past 30 or 40 years. Iraq was always united (in fact I had no clue there were two separate sects of Islam until this war broke out). Iraq was united as Iraqi's not as one group here, one group here, and then the turks up in the north. Amazes me how taking out their leader can cause that, that is the direct cause of what happened. I think a few groups will point out 'hey the Americans are still here, had they not taken Saddam out we wouldn't have this issue.' I'm not sure what that will do, however i think some groups will try harder to go more so after troops and push us out rather than fight each other (that can be done at any point in time).

As for repercussions outside of Iraq.. I think there is a pending civil war in Palestine between the two political factions there. Israel is reaching out to Amas(sp?) (current guy who is the PM over there excuse any spelling errors). They are offering them money and funding to fight the other group. The other group Hamas I think it realizing that without Saddam in power in Iraq they have lost most of their funding from him, he was a key player in Arafat. I think this angers these groups anymore and pushes them into the civil war, because they lack Iraq's help, and they lack their own peoples help and the US is in essence pushing them from both sides (Israel and Iraq). There is also something pending up above Israel in those nations. Syria and Iran I think are prepping to join in on it as well, only a matter of time before they do. I think it will cause.. regional repercussions.. it will be worse than just within Iraq, Iraq is the tip of the iceberg.

2) The trial itself was unfair and unbalanced. The current 'goal' of the United States in Iraq is to bring the Iraqi people a democracy. A democracy does not function or operate in the manner that that court did. I'm also curious as to how the trial started without there actually being an Iraqi government, that itself doesn't make sense to me. I'm not saying the Saddam was a good guy and he didn't deserve what he got (though I'm against death in anyway) I am however saying that the court system in which he went through was unfair. The trial he was sentenced to death on was the assassination temp that happened. He ordered the deaths of 150 people from that town that had 'connections' to the assassination attempt. I believe all 150 were killed, or jailed in the process. The defense requested to see these 'documents' the defense was denied the ability to see said paper work against their client. This doesn't seem at all democratic to me, but I guess thats just me huh? *shrugs*. Small bit of facts (check wiki on this) While Bush was in office in Texas 153 men were killed while on death row. Things to think about on that note? How many were innocent? How many were rejected a stay plea? I can't provide you statistics on that, but if anyone can provide me with them that would be great..

3) I'm against this war (if you couldn't tell already). I think the reasons we went in were too iffy. I fully wholeheartedly support the troops that are over there. When you enlist in the army, and when you are a reserves person you are told to go over there, you can't pick where you go, you're just sent there. These people signed up to do what they're doing now, they get what they get, thus I support them in doing what they're doing. What I don't support is the political ignorance in Washington. This is both the ignorance of the democratic party and the republican party alike, and any other party that has any form of say within that hunk of land we call the capital of this country. I think the best thing to do is pull out slowly, but swiftly. Enough to where we wont cause damage in the process, but still get people out of there. As of now, what are we doing? We're watching too factions fight, and we're getting killed. There is no 'terrorism' in Iraq there is pure civil war between two nations. The best people to solve this problem is the people of Iraq. We !@#$% them over, totally. We should, once they have a structured government, pay them back rightfully what we owe. Though we cannot pay them back in the lives we personally stole, and the lives they stole from each other. But we can assist them when the time comes. Adding more troops in Iraq will not help at all, there is no need for it, the majority of the upper commanders on the ground don't want to do it, and Sec. Gates disagrees with it as well (as he should he was on that commission.). What Bush does I suppose he'll do on his own, however the democratic congress has a few strong players going against adding troops to Iraq, lets see what they can do (if any good).

4) I think, knowing what the President has done in the past, it will go for the worse. Most likely there will be no 'real' way to stop him from adding troops into Iraq. Something will 'happen' to allow him to do it, or do an executive order to make sure it happens. As of now the executive branch has way too much power. I think the only thing that would truly help that administration is total abolishment. If there was a way to actually get our representatives to listen to us, and impeach people when laws were broken we wouldn't have this issue at  all. Unfortunately the democratic congress (most of them) are against impeachment, though I think the Bush Administration has enough dirt on them for impeachment to happen. Most people say 'whats the point of impeachment with only two years left'. Well 3,000 have died in Iraq, and at the rate Americans are dead there by the end of two years that number may be around the 6,000 mark. Thats the reason for impeachment. Our Army is already weak, if there is an actual threat at some point in time (or god forbid a natural disaster) we do not have the ability to act quickly enough on it. Thats why.

:p Enjoy reading that, sorry about the spelling mistakes there are tons there. I'm not on firefox 2.0 :(
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2007, 05:28:39 pm »
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What are you talking about?  To be blunt, Saddam was like Hitler, he was responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians and started 3 wars.  I'm not saying that the deaths of soldiers aren't important, but when a menacing dictator (who, again, is the cause of the US being in Iraq) is put to death by the hands of the very people he oppressed, it's a tad more meaningful at the moment (as it relates to the world in general).

What I mean is that death doesn't seem as such a big punishment considering how people died in combat. Did they also die because it was a punishment? I can't really feel like "there Saddam got what he deserved". Because that would mean, to me, that all innocent people ALSO "got what they deserved". It's so naive when people think that death penalty is the ultimate punishment, or the worst punishment.
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2007, 06:08:10 pm »
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to patch things up I reckon they should hang both Tony Blair and George Bush, they are as guilty of crimes against humanity as Saddam was.

Saddam wasn't a good person, He should of died at least with dignity I am 100% against the publication of his hanging, and the conditions he was hung with I have watched the hanging video and I think it should be removed. This has just caused me too hate the Government and USA and UK even more, shame I live in the UK and under its control >_>.

EDIT: I meant the UK and USA Presidency not its people.
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2007, 06:15:07 pm »
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well as you all said sadam was responsebull for alot of death, and yes he was like hitler, but I personlly I am glad he got hanged. because of him alot of people died for now reason, men, womans, children. people that didn't even have to do anything with this war. it sucks, My dad also went there to fight happy he came back in one piece. but he told me when he was there how horobul it was. he didn't want to say alot about it.
any way back to supject
he is dead now, I hope the war there wil end soon so people can get some rest and that there is no more death.
people should die of old age not by a bomb.
uhm.
I think I am getting to way off-topic so All I have to say is

glad he is dead, hanging was ngo the best idea they should let him live and let him rot in jail. but we have no more trouble of him again.
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2007, 06:19:16 pm »
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to patch things up I reckon they should hang both Tony Blair and George Bush, they are as guilty of crimes against humanity as Saddam was.

Saddam wasn't a good person, He should of died at least with dignity I am 100% against the publication of his hanging, and the conditions he was hung with I have watched the hanging video and I think it should be removed. This has just caused me too hate the Government and USA and UK even more, shame I live in the UK and under its control >_>.

EDIT: I meant the UK and USA Presidency not its people.
That had to be the biggest doosh of a post that I have seen in a while. 

Both George Bush and Tony Blair do not use terrorism to convey ideas, and Saddam died choosing to not wear a cover on his head; he chose to go out bravely.  The "publication" of his hanging was mostly done by by local Arab TV stations to prove to the region that he did die, and anything leaked was just over-zealous people wanting to see something else.  It is not like the governments of the UK and US released these videos publically or showed them through the TV in a state of the union or whatever you do in the UK.  Also, you hate the conditions for which he was hung and you blame the US and UK governments?  This was handled by the Iraqi government, and not them.

I guess I am sorry really, I just do not think that the nerve gas attacks Saddam committed on some Iraqi people and his dictatorship are comparable to the US and UK leaders, and almost everything you can do to try and compare them will fall short if not very far. 
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2007, 06:35:39 pm »
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I personally don't believe in killing people, even if someone killed thousands of people.
It wasn't only Saddams fault, as his troops did what he commanded (who is fooler, a fool who who falls into a hole, or a fool who follows him there).
He did things that he thought were right. Kinda like Hitler.
Jail would've been a lot better punishment, and it would've given him the time to think about his doings.
No one has the right to take away human life, not even the highest leaders, or Saddam, or anyone else.
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2007, 06:37:31 pm »
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That had to be the biggest doosh of a post that I have seen in a while. 

Both George Bush and Tony Blair do not use terrorism to convey ideas, and Saddam died choosing to not wear a cover on his head; he chose to go out bravely.  The "publication" of his hanging was mostly done by by local Arab TV stations to prove to the region that he did die, and anything leaked was just over-zealous people wanting to see something else.  It is not like the governments of the UK and US released these videos publically or showed them through the TV in a state of the union or whatever you do in the UK.  Also, you hate the conditions for which he was hung and you blame the US and UK governments?  This was handled by the Iraqi government, and not them.

I guess I am sorry really, I just do not think that the nerve gas attacks Saddam committed on some Iraqi people and his dictatorship are comparable to the US and UK leaders, and almost everything you can do to try and compare them will fall short if not very far. 

I see what your saying, and the conditions wasn't me blaming our governments, I know it wasn't there fault, That was an attack at there government. The publication, they could of just released a photo of him in the noose, not the !@#$% video. They have also showed it on British TV now, and all I have seen since then are pictures of him in the noose with 'pwned' or other pathetic crap photoshopped on it. Don't get me wrong I'm glad hes dead. And with George Bush and Tony Blair, their idea for this 'war' was that it was to rid him of Nuclear, Biological or Chemical warheads, which was proven he didn't have, so in a way that was an act of terrorism on their grounds admittedly not a purposeful one but why are we still there? And non of this crap that without us Iraq would just fall apart, they've made it clear were not wanted there, OC's themselves are saying that they are making the matter worse, yet we still twiddle our thumbs shooting at terrorists who only want us out. With the conditions he was hung what I was saying was about, he was hung in some abandoned warehouse thing, and his hangmen were being abusive to him, okay he killed innocent people, but your about to kill the !@#$%, why the extra abuse? and aren't hangmen supposed to not speak?
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2007, 06:44:21 pm »
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Yeah, George Bush has also killed (not directly, but with his troops) many people, even if in the name of "peace".
Doing the right thing depends of the point of view. I'm sure Saddam thought that what he did was right, correct?
Big part of middle easterns say Bush is a killer etc.
Even in Europe and in America!
What makes him so different?
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2007, 06:51:59 pm »
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What, I thought he was hung in an old women's prison, but whatever really.  Just because British media got hold of the full video does not mean that the British government released it.  The media knew where to find it, and so they showed it to get ratings. 

Also, there were biological and chemical weapons found. 

And TomPel, Bush did not see a fledging resistence and bomb it with nerve gas like Saddam did.  Saddam knew what he was doing, and I do not think that what he did was a good thing; nor did he think that probably.  Most people who say Bush is a killer are religious fanatics; Europe has liberals and Islamic fanatics, the US just has liberals.  I am not saying that Bush is perfect, but your characterizations of him are getting to the point of retardation.  Most civilians that the US has killed were A) in the line of fire, B) were actually terrorists in civilian clothing or C) isolated incidents.
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2007, 06:55:27 pm »
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I'm happy they finnaly killed this piece of !@#$%.
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2007, 07:02:38 pm »
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The government haven't done anything to stop the release of the video, meaning they are for its release. And they thought they found biological weapons, they in fact found a few missiles. (unless your talking about another instance I missed).

In my opinion Tony Blair and George Bush are idiots and should be removed from power before we get into another 'war' with Iran, or Korea, or any other country in the Middle East.
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2007, 07:10:10 pm »
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Now you sound even more dumb.  It is called freedom of press or whatever its equivilant is in the UK.  If the media wants to show that, then they can.  It is their right.  Your whole argument saying that because they allowed it they support it is unfounded.  The media is not government controlled, only regulated.  The video is not that bad either, everyone knew what happened, and most people watched it for proof of his death.

The sad thing is Tony Blair and George Bush are both smarter than you in terms of political and world action.  That is all they have to be good at, so any other attack on their intelligence is pointless.  They have no solid grounds for removal anyway, and even if they did, it would be pointless to remove them; their terms are almost over.
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2007, 07:17:26 pm »
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The media gets away with WAY too much, and its ridiculous that they can.

The sad thing is Tony Blair and George Bush are both smarter than you in terms of political and world action.  That is all they have to be good at, so any other attack on their intelligence is pointless.  They have no solid grounds for removal anyway, and even if they did, it would be pointless to remove them; their terms are almost over.

You mean apart from the fact that since their power they have done more bad then good. I am very glad that soon they will be out of power. American government is pretty good, but British government sucks, they are trying too hard to be like American, but too no avail.
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2007, 07:24:21 pm »
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How, another statement that just shoots itself if the face Cobain-style. 
The media gets away with WAY too much, and its ridiculous that they can.
What you are saying is that it is ridiculous the media can have so much freedom.  And yet you still probably think that the British government is a totalitarian death-camp.  A shame really.

With their power, they have done many good things.  You are just looking past them to try and better your argument.  I guess that retaliating against all terrorists is a bad thing then, even though the rest of the world would disagree with you.  No one said it was easy to take on faceless killers you know.  It might be hard, but it is right.   
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2007, 07:31:26 pm »
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I guess I got owned then :(
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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2007, 07:43:35 pm »
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You look at the deaths caused by Saddam. I only know directly of two cases specifically, so I'll only discuss the two I know.

1) There was an attempt on his life, we were never shown really the full details on that attempt on his life, other than the fact he was visiting a small town and was nearly killed by a group of people. Because of that visit, he ordered the deaths of 150 suspects in that small town. Men and Young Men, who were put to death and jailed over the offense.

Now, from my point of view, 150 might be slightly excessive, but we hardly know the details behind the story, this is what Saddam was executed for.

2) The attack on another country (seen as genocide) due to the use of chemical weapons. This attack was carried out on Kuwait where I believe several hundred thousand died as a result of the conflict. Kuwait was originally part of Iraq, thus in a way this was a type of 'civil' war if you will, an internal conflict between two countries.

I personally feel that genocide is a term that is tossed around too easily in our media. There are some outright true genocides, then there are a few far-fetched ideas of it. I'm not sure what the Kuwait thing was, since I truly have not looked into it much more than that. If this case would have gone to trial, it should have been tried in an international court, and not a Iraqi court.

Alright, the reason I discussed those two specific matters is to look at what someone said earlier about Bush and Blair being hung. (Which I disagree with because I disagree with capital punishment.) Needless to say, all of the deaths listed above Saddam did not personally carry out, someone else did them, military people, Iraqi police and government officials.

1) 3,000 dead American Troops in Iraq
2) 350+ dead American Troops in Afghanistan
3) Numbers estimated at 60,000+ Iraqi civilians deaths in Iraq. Consider 100+ die daily in Iraq (Civilians) We have been in Iraq since 2003 (its 2007). That number is way off. Any person who can add numbers can see that the number is off. We bombed the country, took out their leader and spawned a civil war between two religious sects, the number is higher. (Every death related to civil war violence should be counted as a hit against the Bush Administration Officials as well because had we not bombed them, had we not took out Saddam, Iraq would still have peace. Peace is much better than death.).
4) Same goes for Afghanistan.
5) Bush over saw the death of 153 men while in office in Texas (whether they murdered/killed/raped someone or not, its deaths he over saw, thus I will list them.
6) Rumsfeld is supposed to get charged with war crimes over in Germany, if this is successful, I would assume other attempts against Bush and his other administrative members would be possible. However a President cannot be charged while in office without impeachment, the democratic party refuses to impeach (as of a few months ago), the republican party also refuses. However with as low as his approval rating is among, normal people, democrats, republicans, military (active/retired), there is a good possibility something may happen.

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Re: Saddam Is Dead
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2007, 07:45:07 pm »
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How, another statement that just shoots itself if the face Cobain-style. 
The media gets away with WAY too much, and its ridiculous that they can.
What you are saying is that it is ridiculous the media can have so much freedom.  And yet you still probably think that the British government is a totalitarian death-camp.  A shame really.

With their power, they have done many good things.  You are just looking past them to try and better your argument.  I guess that retaliating against all terrorists is a bad thing then, even though the rest of the world would disagree with you.  No one said it was easy to take on faceless killers you know.  It might be hard, but it is right.   

You didn't get owned. Why didn't you?

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygb5uyPZBkg

Thats why you didn't get owned, its the same in the US as it is in England and everywhere else..
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