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Author Topic: Another Short Rant  (Read 4461 times)

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Another Short Rant
« on: February 20, 2007, 01:52:59 am »
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Due to a series of dumb topics I've seen, I've decided to give a mini rant. This isn't aimed only at those topics, but towards anyone who does the following.

1. If you are copying a game in 2d but just changing the graphic style, you suck.
2. If you are making a Zelda fan game in anything other than MC style or a custom graphical style, you are an idiot. LTTP can pass at times.
3. If you are making a fan game and have graphics ripped from other fan games, you are a noob. What are you thinking. I saw a Mario game with rupees a while back, it was completley retarded.
4. If you use "plz u r" you have the IQ of the average household mop. It isn't cool or appealing. Take the 0.00001 seconds to hold the shift button or write a period.
5. If you lose a game because your laptop crashed and decide to quit as a result, you don't deserve pity. You either A) create backups or B) start over because you're devoted. Otherwise you're a !@#$% who buckles under slight pressure and setbacks.
6. If you are working on more than 2 huge projects at once, you might as well stop. Nothing will get done.

Case !@#$% closed. And why does nearly every single game in the void sections of the WIP board completely suck? They are all uninspired, cheesy, unoriginal. And I'm talking about the ones that aren't copies. Honestly, the formula is "take some item" and then put some epic sounding word like "life, aura, destiny" after it.

Discuss.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 04:23:33 am by Scooternew »
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2007, 03:04:00 am »
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Number 2 is a very unfair rule to go by. :P I agree that LTTP is overused and boring, but MC is way too cartoony for some games, and custom will take eternity to get looking good. If any fangame wants to have a hope of ever finishing it has to use something simple and yet good. Take GB Style, but don't just use what came with it. Make new tiles in the same style. And new sprites too. There's my 2 cents.
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2007, 03:12:18 am »
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I agree mostly with Moldorma. My Zelda fan game is different however because it uses ZFGC style. >_> which is what they were made for so... its not suck.
Also my fan game does not use epic words... just "Hylian Chronicles" simple and short.
And the story is simple too. Your a deku boy and your hungry late at night. So you must sneak into town avoiding curfew patrol and bashing up moblins and other enemies to steal some food from the pub.

Other than that you both are completely correct. Especially about the crashing laptop
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2007, 03:15:31 am »
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Can you say flame? Besides, spell-checking posts is tedious and annoying. We all wish everybody would be perfect, but they aren't, and we're not, and there's no reason to hold people to those standards. Also, many of the people here are in the basic learning stage. I looked through the drawer where I keep all the art of mine that I still have, and most of it was complete crap. I was in a more basic learning stage then. I will say that I am much better at working with/helping newbies/learners than most people on this forum, who will simply treat them like dirt. You should ecnourage people's efforts, while offering help and criticism. Otherwise, you have absolutely no right to complain about it.

I agree mostly with Moldorma. My Zelda fan game is different however because it uses ZFGC style. >_> which is what they were made for so... its not suck.
Also my fan game does not use epic words... just "Hylian Chronicles" simple and short.
And the story is simple too. Your a deku boy and your hungry late at night. So you must sneak into town avoiding curfew patrol and bashing up moblins and other enemies to steal some food from the pub.

Other than that you both are completely correct. Especially about the crashing laptop
Thank you for your blatant advertising. :)

Also, guess what? 60% of people don't make proper, regular backups. We're all lazy. It's bad, but it's done. And if we do make backups, often are personal or professional files/documents have a higher priority than our fangame-related ones.

EDIT: By the way, "short rant" is a paradox. Following your logic, why should I believe your post has any value if you title it something that is factually impossible?
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2007, 03:25:17 am »
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Well, I only dislike it when people say that their computer deleted everything because that excuse here seems to happen too often.  Beyond that though, I dislike it when people request things or ask for help and do not even make sure that their posts are readable.  If I was going to take the time to help somebody, I sure as hell do not want to figure out what they are saying.  I have better things to do.  Then of course, those people will complain because no one is helping them.  Well guess what !@#$% tards, it is your fault no one is helping you.  Yeah, that is right, the world does not revolve around you, so do not ask things of others and then act like an ass when you do not get your way.  The same thing goes to people who ask for everything when they have not contributed !@#$% to the community or just feel like they should get everything they ask for.  There is a difference between learning and being inexperienced with what you are trying and then proceeding to ask assistance from others and being a n00b.  I am not going to name out any names nor do I think that anyone else should, because if you do not know who you are, then you have made me lose all faith in humanity.
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2007, 03:30:59 am »
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The problem with your argument and others like it is that they hold no ground and are self-destructive. I once taught a guy some basic CSS over IM for about two weeks and in just those two weeks, I could see improvement in not only his ability in CSS, but his clearer understanding of more basic computer functions, and increasing use of proper grammar and spelling. With the right influence, you can change the things you don't like. But calling people who don;t know how to do things f**ktards is like saying that people who are too short to reach things on shelves are f**ktards for asking for help if you happent o be walking by, rather than going and getting a chair to stand on.
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2007, 03:35:40 am »
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1. If you are copying a game in 2d but just changing the graphic style, you suck.
2. If you are making a Zelda fan game in anything other than MC style or a custom graphical style, you are an idiot. LTTP can pass at times.
3. If you are making a fan game and have graphics ripped from other fan games, you are a noob. What are you thinking. I saw a Mario game with rupees a while back, it was completley retarded.
4. If you use "plz u r" you have the IQ of the average household mop. It isn't cool or appealing. Take the 0.00001 seconds to hold the shift button or write a period.
5. If you lose a game because your laptop crashed and decide to quit as a result, you don't deserve pity. You either A) create backups or B) start over because you're devoted. Otherwise you're a !@#$% who buckles under slight pressure and setbacks.
1. I sort of agree with this one but I do not think it would extend to a 2d remake. It can change gameplay if it is in a different view.

2. This is a matter of opinion. I personally like GB and find Lttp to be a more serious style.

3. Again, matter of opinion. I like to see games with mixed graphical style. Super Smash Bros isn't a shitty game even though none of the characters follow the same rules. (Link and Mario, in real life, would be the same height. So would Kirby if you take the T.V show into consideration.)

4. I agree. Though, if you are foreign and learning english, you do deserve more then one chance.

5. Again, I agree. Make backups, online, offline, discs, etc.

 Alot of these seem directed at certain people in which this topic should be closed. If you reworded them in a way that they seemed more global then an isolated cause, I would agree that it should stay open.
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2007, 03:36:48 am »
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Kame:

I think that I am justified in calling people who ask too much in too short of time who have provided nothing for this place and those who have no intention to do so !@#$% tards.  I am in no way referring to the mentally challenged, and having a form of Autism makes me especially offended by people who call people with mental conditions names.  I am referring to those who do ask too much in a disrespectful way (repeated misspelling and almost intentional bad grammar) as !@#$% tards because that is what I believe they are.  Was I saying that I was against people who ask questions?  No.  I am just against those who do it too often, in a disrespectful way, and those who seek no self-changing.  Please do not try to twist my words.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 03:40:00 am by 4Sword »
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2007, 03:54:13 am »
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I did not twist your words. I did apply your ideas to a seemingly more black-and-white situation. But really, why should we expect them to ive something to this place? This is Zelda Fan Game Central. Part of the point of our existance is to help people in the creation of Zelda Fan Games. If we succeed in helping them and they succeed in what we're helping them with, then they will end up giving sometthing to the community.. a game, or maybe just a demo or two. Or maybe nothing. Just as we wouldn't expect the child we helped to reach something do something for us with the thing we helped them reach, we shouldn't expect people who need help with fangames to make sure they complete them. And just so you know, this negativity towards newcomers and helpfulness is why ZFGC is becoming this way. Now the only people who are willing to stick around us, or most of the people, who share your view (sorry for the generalization), are the thick-skinned ones that will keep doing stupid things no matter what we tell them. Your negative attitude is self-destructive and brings down the community far more than a newcomer in need ever has.

Since I can't edit my posts in mobile mode, let me jsut say that I tried not to twist your words. if you think I did, then, I'm sorry.
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2007, 04:04:27 am »
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I do not think that you will ever see my opinion because you look at it from another perspective.  However, I feel that the acceptance and general feeling of an obligation to help those who obviously do not respect this place enough brings down the community more than the negative feelings and attitudes towards them.  I guess I could even say that they do not have to be respectful to the community, but they should be respectful to the users who are here.  How would you feel if your friends asked you to do their homework for them?  Because, that is basically how it is here.  All of the people who I dislike due to their requesting attitude want others to do things for them, and when they repeat this behavior, it is just wrong.  I do not think that people should give material things back to this place, but they should at least "bless" it with a good reputation of a strong user base.  And besides, if you want help, you are going to have a greater chance of getting it if you are nice and well-spoken.  That is just common sense. 
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2007, 04:21:55 am »
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Can you say flame? Besides, spell-checking posts is tedious and annoying. We all wish everybody would be perfect, but they aren't, and we're not, and there's no reason to hold people to those standards. Also, many of the people here are in the basic learning stage. I looked through the drawer where I keep all the art of mine that I still have, and most of it was complete crap. I was in a more basic learning stage then. I will say that I am much better at working with/helping newbies/learners than most people on this forum, who will simply treat them like dirt. You should ecnourage people's efforts, while offering help and criticism. Otherwise, you have absolutely no right to complain about it.

I agree mostly with Moldorma. My Zelda fan game is different however because it uses ZFGC style. >_> which is what they were made for so... its not suck.
Also my fan game does not use epic words... just "Hylian Chronicles" simple and short.
And the story is simple too. Your a deku boy and your hungry late at night. So you must sneak into town avoiding curfew patrol and bashing up moblins and other enemies to steal some food from the pub.

Other than that you both are completely correct. Especially about the crashing laptop
Thank you for your blatant advertising. :)

Also, guess what? 60% of people don't make proper, regular backups. We're all lazy. It's bad, but it's done. And if we do make backups, often are personal or professional files/documents have a higher priority than our fangame-related ones.

EDIT: By the way, "short rant" is a paradox. Following your logic, why should I believe your post has any value if you title it something that is factually impossible?
I certainly wouldn't call my first post long. Especially for a "rant".

Ok, this is the kind of thing that makes me mad. Let's shred your post, shall we?

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Besides, spell-checking posts is tedious and annoying.
Yep, so hard. It's so hard to see "plz" and read through it carefully and write "Please". Yep, SO tedious. It's even more tedious to copy and paste an entire paragraph in MSWord and hit the spell check button to do it for you. Look, I don't mind the occasional blunder, but it's just unacceptable for the most part.

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We all wish everybody would be perfect, but they aren't, and we're not, and there's no reason to hold people to those standards.
Well, not only is this false, but there is plenty of reason for those people to hold those standards to themselves. How about self image? Anyway, do you realize how hard it is to read through a post littered with plz and u and r? Do you realize how annoying it is to keep up with a fan game for weeks and months to have it all lost in a miserable laptop crash?

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Also, many of the people here are in the basic learning stage. I looked through the drawer where I keep all the art of mine that I still have, and most of it was complete crap. I was in a more basic learning stage then. I will say that I am much better at working with/helping newbies/learners than most people on this forum, who will simply treat them like dirt. You should ecnourage people's efforts, while offering help and criticism. Otherwise, you have absolutely no right to complain about it.
Firstly, don't tell me what rights I have and don't have. I have whatever freedom I want to !@#$% about it. I don't see why many people in this forum go by the "ooh let's all be nice and politically correct and not point out problems as they are exactly." I'd rather be harsh and honest then anything else. Secondly, If you aren't experienced enough, you don't start a game - you wait until you are experienced enough. Do you realize the number of years it took for Nintendo to make Twilight Princess? Ok, so how do you expect some random 12 year old to make a 2d adaptation of that by himself? Look, would you attempt to climb Everest in your state? No, unless you're stupid.

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Also, guess what? 60% of people don't make proper, regular backups. We're all lazy. It's bad, but it's done. And if we do make backups, often are personal or professional files/documents have a higher priority than our fangame-related ones.
Yep, hard to do. Ctrl+C and Ctrl+v, you're done. Honestly, just copy and paste the file in another directory. That can put a huge dent in it. Then, every major update burn it to a disc, or upload it to a website. It's so simple, honestly.

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But calling people who don;t know how to do things f**ktards is like saying that people who are too short to reach things on shelves are f**ktards for asking for help if you happent o be walking by, rather than going and getting a chair to stand on.
Well, this makes sense. Someone can learn something - you can teach people things. People who are short can't just magically get taller.

I added number 6.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 04:27:42 am by Scooternew »
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2007, 04:50:36 am »
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4Sword, your last post seemed much clearer to me. Your example of my friends asking me to do their home work would except for one thing. I'm not a teacher. We are the teachers. Like I said, this is a Zelda Fan Game Community. If I had told my friend that I loved to do math and that if he needed help he could come ask, and then he asked, there wouldn't be a problem. And that's the entire difference between our perspectives. I just.. I'm not trying to be politically correct, i'm trying to be beneficial to the community, and to the dreams of the developers here. And Scoot, couple things: spell-checking and grammar-checking IS tedious, whatever you say. It almost always takes me longer to read and correct my posts than it does to write them. As for word's spell-check, a lot of people add words/terms like "plz" to the dictionary beause they use them a lot. And really, it's not that hard. As for the annoyance at a lost fangame, isn't it so much worse for the person who was working on it? You're basically just some lucky kid going "Oh gosh, this game I like is gone!" whereas to the developer, his work is gone. And then you have to go and say "Damn you for making a mistake!". Wouldn't he already be disappointed enough? And I never said that making backups was hard. All I'm saying is, you can empathise. Try.
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2007, 05:00:21 am »
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It depends on the person. I empathise, but it's a whole image thing. Usually all of these types of annoyances are grouped together. No, it isn't "bad" for the people watching the game, but it can be with projects that are very ambitious. Also, random topics take up space and clutter up the forum.
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2007, 05:23:39 am »
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Kame, my analogy was that there are certain bad members of this community that decide to ask rather than do for everything.  These people do not seek to learn, they only seek for others to do things for them.  My analogy was that a person's friend would get ask for their friend to do it all for them.  It has nothing to do with teaching.  The whole point is that if you do something for someone entirely and they themselves never do anything for themselves, then it does not really help anyone.  Again, I have no problem with people asking for regular help because it is easy for those who want to help to provide them with help.  However, asking for a Link MC sprite, a Zelda MC sprite, some MC tiles, some MC backgrounds, some custom things in MC style all in one post is just too damn much.  It benefits no one and only serves to point out a n00b user.  There is nothing wrong with having a dream, but simply having a dream is not a way to success.  One has to have drive and ambition to get there.  Do you want to be a programmer or make a fan game?  Here is an idea: do most of it yourself.  The boards here were set up as an aid to fan game development, not a requesting !@#$%'s board.  It is not beneficial to the community to post topics that are too demanding from someone who is undeserving.

In case you still do not get what I am saying, I will try to sum it up a bit.  We here at ZFGC serve to help those who are serious about fan game development.  If there are people who do not have the decency to type cleanly when asking for help, then they do not deserve help.  I am not asking for perfection, but I am asking for some god damn periods, capitalization, or other punctuation marks.  It is not that hard.  There is even a spell check button for crying out loud.  How can you tell me that we should help everyone when some of the n00bs who ask for help cannot even do the basic things required to get effective help and they only use the help they get to make something rather than fully understand how something is made?  It is more beneficial to the community in the long run to promote simple respect and reasonability.  If that is not offered, then we end up with a lot of n00bs just asking for things, and that is not good.  If we do get some respect and decency, those helped will be able to help others in the future and overall will be pretty good users.  Just look at King Mob.  A new guy and now he even has his own project going.  We enabled him because he did what he was doing in a respectful and well-done manner.  We need more of that.

Also, it is not like we refuse help to these people.  These people ignore it only wanting the end result.  In Programming, most have no experience at Game Maker at all and they want to go jump into a fan game.  They have not even read the GM manuel or any of the existing topics in the Programming section.  That is just sad.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 05:26:07 am by 4Sword »
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Dayjo

shut the fuck up donny.
Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2007, 12:13:15 pm »
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6. If you are working on more than 2 huge projects at once, you might as well stop. Nothing will get done.
I disagree, i'm working on about 8 (in total) game and non-game projects, and I'm getting work done on them all, slowly but surely :P
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2007, 12:25:34 pm »
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Quote
5. If you lose a game because your laptop crashed and decide to quit as a result, you don't deserve pity. You either A) create backups or B) start over because you're devoted. Otherwise you're a !@#$% who buckles under slight pressure and setbacks.
I know this is directed at me.  If everyone would listen fully to others and why they quit after a crash,may be everyone would understand better.
I indeed did find my backups of LttP-GB.Could I easily start it back up...yes..am I,No.  The matter of the fact is,I let myself get ahead of what I knew.
I am man enough to say,"Hey, I do not know everything yet.  I'm still a novice.  Sorry that I started this without full research.  That was foolish and I am
going to do my best NOT to do that again."  I simply do not have the programming knowledge for a LttP-GB...One day I will restart it after I learn more.
For that reason, I quit LttP-GB.  Maybe someone will understand and not jump up and scream "!@#$%" just because someone quit.
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2007, 12:32:11 pm »
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Can I post my rant here about posting before you have any f**king content?

Edited from my post in the *snigger* TP2D topic
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A game which has a chance of succeeding has a certain 'air' to the first public mentioning of it, a kind of 'charism' and 'showmanship' that tells us it's great. It's hard to say what makes these 'success' topics great, but their is something. A short list would be: Screenshots which impress, possibly a Demo which shows the engine is damn close/has reached completion or an actual part of the game demonstrating the engine, a trailer if included is very well put together, though their are many more things.

If you post before, let's be fair, you have any content to show us, it instantly proves you are Impatient.

Why? Because you couldn't wait until you actually had something before you posted, therefore you lack the patience needed to make a full-blown game of any decent size, it will be ditched as soon as your patience runs out. That simple.

In short, even if you have, the impatient person, the skill to make your concept could work, though people who post so early generally don't, you lack the restraints and skills needed to complete it. You expect too much too quickly, if you were to attempt this it would not be finished quickly enough for you, you couldn't put in the year or more of work at least before your project would be anywhere NEAR finished. As you have demonstrated you lack the patience.

Also: DEATH TO TEXT TALK!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 12:36:21 pm by TheDarkJay »
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2007, 12:38:42 pm »
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Quote
5. If you lose a game because your laptop crashed and decide to quit as a result, you don't deserve pity. You either A) create backups or B) start over because you're devoted. Otherwise you're a !@#$% who buckles under slight pressure and setbacks.
I know this is directed at me.  If everyone would listen fully to others and why they quit after a crash,may be everyone would understand better.
I indeed did find my backups of LttP-GB.Could I easily start it back up...yes..am I,No.  The matter of the fact is,I let myself get ahead of what I knew.
I am man enough to say,"Hey, I do not know everything yet.  I'm still a novice.  Sorry that I started this without full research.  That was foolish and I am
going to do my best NOT to do that again."  I simply do not have the programming knowledge for a LttP-GB...One day I will restart it after I learn more.
For that reason, I quit LttP-GB.  Maybe someone will understand and not jump up and scream "!@#$%" just because someone quit.


its stupid to post a game to public when you dont even had the skill to make a good game... you're a man to say you cant finish it with your skill and you try not to do it again? then post THAT into your projects thread and not "uhm, my laptop crashed, kthx sry cu"

just leave no things in it which would make someone gravedig asking "is that dead?" and when you are on another project, skipping lttp, delete your signature... its old then

ah and btw: you're not the first one saying "my pc/lappy/mac is chrashed *dont know why* i had "sooooo much" finished from lttp/hf/aol/oot/mm/fs/fsa/tt/tmc + 2D/2D+/2D++/+/++/3d/GB/GM/Advanced" so dont get it personal what he says
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 01:42:04 am by MasterGohan Zero »
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2007, 12:40:41 pm »
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Thanks for the advice...
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Re: Another Short Rant
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2007, 02:58:05 pm »
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I am the same as Dayjo. I have two game projects going on at the moment, a Zelda fangame, an original arcade game, and also a number of other non-game related projects.

And 4sword, like you said, it;s not that hard to hit a button to check spelling. But it's also not that hard to just read through the post without nitpicking. If you need, we can compromise - they try to get better, and we try to be less picky. And from there both of s only get better. You're expecting these newbies to be perfect in some areas but imperfect in others, which is really just ridiculous. They're only as good as they are, as are you. And  I'm pretty sure King Mob wasn't a game development newbie when he joined here.
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