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[Moldrill]

Moldrill

Re: Freedom of Speech

Psst. I know Andrew. I want a democracy.

Psst. Pyru, no u.

[dehvknull]

dehvknull

Re: Freedom of Speech

Ah. Didnt see what you said Taka. Yeh ZFGC isnt a democracy. Thats another thing. It should be. Before admins or mods decide to change or add a new rule there should be a public vote on it.

Except the vast majority of the ZFGC members are too inactive for a vote to be expedient or effective, and the rest are too stupid/selfish/assholeish/etc to vote in a way that will benefit the community as a whole.

Ugh... assholeish... I HATE THAT WORD... and my sister says it all the time. >_<

[TheRealDragonboy]

TheRealDragonboy

Re: Freedom of Speech

Ah. Didnt see what you said Taka. Yeh ZFGC isnt a democracy. Thats another thing. It should be. Before admins or mods decide to change or add a new rule there should be a public vote on it.

Psst, that'd make it a democracy.

lol Democracies aren't that bad, [sarcasm=no way!]or do you prefer Authoritarianism[/sarcasm]

Sarcasm tags..

That would be hilarious.

Yeah that would be hilarious!

Making the tag [sarcasm=yourrealtexthere]sarcastic comment[/sarcasm]
That when you hover the link, it will show in a little temp popup window (would be easy in JS and HTML DOM) and shows the real text ^^

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[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: Freedom of Speech

I guess since I am the manager of all moderation and and forum itself, I should step in. 

Lunar, you were let back from a permanent ban because you said that you were a better person now.  A lot of the moderation staff was skeptical about letting you back, and posting something that looks offensive isn't the best way to reestablish that you belong here.  It looked liked you were doing it to be overly rude and it looked like you hadn't changed as you so claimed.  The "joke" wasn't so evident. .TakaM basically summed that up for me.

Moldrill, you could formally complain about the warning itself rather than bring it up in here for more drama too.  Sarcasm is hard to convey, but we'll assess intent if it matters that much to you to see if we think you meant it.

Andrew, the warning system isn't so complicated.  To reverse a warning, you just give them another one with the categorial option of clear warnings or reduce warnings by a set number and then leave all check boxes checked so that the PM is sent and the level is modified.

As for voting on anything.  I plan on doing that too, but no one will probably vote.  Whenever I post something in ZFGC.com only a few people reply.

If you want a new feature, suggest it in Requests.  Windy might do it if he was time or something.

And gawd, this seems late because I kept hitting preview and it was 6 replies, 5 replies, etc, so if this seems late so be it.

[Vash]

Vash

Re: Freedom of Speech

Democracy would fail.

I considered doing it after Helios quit, just to see what would happen. But I decided against it, I did shoot the idea around with several staffers too, when deciding on who I would select for the new administrator.

Explain to me how it would work so much better? You have the ability currently to dispute anything. We do honestly look it over before giving our opinions on the matter (a final opinion). Administrators opinions may very, we run off to a little PM window an discuss the idea for a while, compromise with each other and then give our final opinion on the matter. I'm unclear on how you think a democracy would be so much better?

How would we run it? Would we be a 'federalist' democracy? Would we have an electroal college? Would we be a true democracy? Would we only have democratic concepts? Would we have a representative system? -- You want less complex, step back and take a look at how complex democracy is.

So how can I give you 'less complex' things, when you want more complex things? You as the user should only have a few things on your mind, one of them conversing with others, and the other 'having fun'. Just have fun, let us do our thing, you can do yours. If you're unhappy with the direction we're heading please raise your voice up and let it be heard, but do it in a nice way, explain why you think something would work better than the other. (I still want to hear your theory on a democratic ZFGC whether or not I feel it would work or not is regardless). Just enjoy yourself, thats what you're here for, let us have the headaches.

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100

[Moldrill]

Moldrill

Re: Freedom of Speech

I would like ZFGC to be a true democracy. Simple as that.*i still want that heart back. is there a way to gain a heart by doing some heavenly deed to redeem yourself or someat?*

[TheRealDragonboy]

TheRealDragonboy

Re: Freedom of Speech

Democracy would fail.

I considered doing it after Helios quit, just to see what would happen. But I decided against it, I did shoot the idea around with several staffers too, when deciding on who I would select for the new administrator.

Explain to me how it would work so much better? You have the ability currently to dispute anything. We do honestly look it over before giving our opinions on the matter (a final opinion). Administrators opinions may very, we run off to a little PM window an discuss the idea for a while, compromise with each other and then give our final opinion on the matter. I'm unclear on how you think a democracy would be so much better?

How would we run it? Would we be a 'federalist' democracy? Would we have an electroal college? Would we be a true democracy? Would we only have democratic concepts? Would we have a representative system? -- You want less complex, step back and take a look at how complex democracy is.

So how can I give you 'less complex' things, when you want more complex things? You as the user should only have a few things on your mind, one of them conversing with others, and the other 'having fun'. Just have fun, let us do our thing, you can do yours. If you're unhappy with the direction we're heading please raise your voice up and let it be heard, but do it in a nice way, explain why you think something would work better than the other. (I still want to hear your theory on a democratic ZFGC whether or not I feel it would work or not is regardless). Just enjoy yourself, thats what you're here for, let us have the headaches.

It would be a problem if random people vote against things that aren't right, maybe we can have a new category "Warnings/Bans" that people ABOVE 500 post can only vote and that post count doesn't counts there. That could resist spammers and random people, because on the way how ZFGC is doing now I'm not sure if that's 100% right, innocent people will only be accused for false things.

I would like ZFGC to be a true democracy. Simple as that.*i still want that heart back. is there a way to gain a heart by doing some heavenly deed to redeem yourself or someat?*

Just wait for the vote topic, I'm sure people will vote for your story.

• 

[dehvknull]

dehvknull

Re: Freedom of Speech

Democracy would fail.

I considered doing it after Helios quit, just to see what would happen. But I decided against it, I did shoot the idea around with several staffers too, when deciding on who I would select for the new administrator.

Explain to me how it would work so much better? You have the ability currently to dispute anything. We do honestly look it over before giving our opinions on the matter (a final opinion). Administrators opinions may very, we run off to a little PM window an discuss the idea for a while, compromise with each other and then give our final opinion on the matter. I'm unclear on how you think a democracy would be so much better?

How would we run it? Would we be a 'federalist' democracy? Would we have an electroal college? Would we be a true democracy? Would we only have democratic concepts? Would we have a representative system? -- You want less complex, step back and take a look at how complex democracy is.

So how can I give you 'less complex' things, when you want more complex things? You as the user should only have a few things on your mind, one of them conversing with others, and the other 'having fun'. Just have fun, let us do our thing, you can do yours. If you're unhappy with the direction we're heading please raise your voice up and let it be heard, but do it in a nice way, explain why you think something would work better than the other. (I still want to hear your theory on a democratic ZFGC whether or not I feel it would work or not is regardless). Just enjoy yourself, thats what you're here for, let us have the headaches.

It would be a problem if random people vote against things that aren't right, maybe we can have a new category "Warnings/Bans" that people ABOVE 500 post can only vote and that post count doesn't counts there. That could resist spammers and random people, because on the way how ZFGC is doing now I'm not sure if that's 100% right, innocent people will only be accused for false things.

I would like ZFGC to be a true democracy. Simple as that.*i still want that heart back. is there a way to gain a heart by doing some heavenly deed to redeem yourself or someat?*

Just wait for the vote topic, I'm sure people will vote for your story.

YOU'RE below 500 posts.

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: Freedom of Speech

I would like ZFGC to be a true democracy. Simple as that.*i still want that heart back. is there a way to gain a heart by doing some heavenly deed to redeem yourself or someat?*

After a while ask that your warning level be reduced because you have improved.  One of the moderators or I, probably I, will review your recent posts and if you have not been that much of an ass, then your warning level will go away.  Reviewing will be somewhat based on the offense though.

[TheRealDragonboy]

TheRealDragonboy

Re: Freedom of Speech

Democracy would fail.

I considered doing it after Helios quit, just to see what would happen. But I decided against it, I did shoot the idea around with several staffers too, when deciding on who I would select for the new administrator.

Explain to me how it would work so much better? You have the ability currently to dispute anything. We do honestly look it over before giving our opinions on the matter (a final opinion). Administrators opinions may very, we run off to a little PM window an discuss the idea for a while, compromise with each other and then give our final opinion on the matter. I'm unclear on how you think a democracy would be so much better?

How would we run it? Would we be a 'federalist' democracy? Would we have an electroal college? Would we be a true democracy? Would we only have democratic concepts? Would we have a representative system? -- You want less complex, step back and take a look at how complex democracy is.

So how can I give you 'less complex' things, when you want more complex things? You as the user should only have a few things on your mind, one of them conversing with others, and the other 'having fun'. Just have fun, let us do our thing, you can do yours. If you're unhappy with the direction we're heading please raise your voice up and let it be heard, but do it in a nice way, explain why you think something would work better than the other. (I still want to hear your theory on a democratic ZFGC whether or not I feel it would work or not is regardless). Just enjoy yourself, thats what you're here for, let us have the headaches.

It would be a problem if random people vote against things that aren't right, maybe we can have a new category "Warnings/Bans" that people ABOVE 500 post can only vote and that post count doesn't counts there. That could resist spammers and random people, because on the way how ZFGC is doing now I'm not sure if that's 100% right, innocent people will only be accused for false things.

I would like ZFGC to be a true democracy. Simple as that.*i still want that heart back. is there a way to gain a heart by doing some heavenly deed to redeem yourself or someat?*

Just wait for the vote topic, I'm sure people will vote for your story.

YOU'RE below 500 posts.

I'm not miserly that I'm going to say "anyone needs to have above 400 post" only because of me, even if I can't vote (yet). Because I want to be honest for global (anyone here) and not only for myself.

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[Vash]

Vash

Re: Freedom of Speech

I would like ZFGC to be a true democracy. Simple as that.*i still want that heart back. is there a way to gain a heart by doing some heavenly deed to redeem yourself or someat?*

You had two hearts missing, now you only have one. It was tended to. -- Better explain how a true democracy would function. Most countries have long documents detailing the working of their country, we can't just go on the basis of 'a true democracy' and let things fly. -- Its over complicating and not worth it. -- I think right now the fact the topic isn't locked along with the other created topic, proves we're very tolerant of users opinions. We do want to hear from you, we do want to understand your reasons on various issues, but there has to be some form of 'control' over things. -- Maybe we can try voting on various things, a few mods suggested we vote for the new administrator when the time came, however I didn't want feelings hurt over the issue, and I wanted someone I knew could manage the job.

(On a side note, I shouldn't have 'fixed' your refraction of hearts, being it wasn't what should have been done. However on the basis of limeys post I was under the impression an error had occurred when he warned you, thus I took a heart off.). 

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: Freedom of Speech

When the new administrator, me, was chosen, basically all of the moderators would have voted for me as well as Andrew and 2awesome4apossum.  The cat was already in the bag.  Voting can be done for other things in the future, and it will.  Voting is not the only thing though.  Asking for options before changes (like I did with the forum layout) was one thing for example.

[TheRealDragonboy]

TheRealDragonboy

Re: Freedom of Speech

When the new administrator, me, was chosen, basically all of the moderators would have voted for me as well as Andrew and 2awesome4apossum.  The cat was already in the bag.  Voting can be done for other things in the future, and it will.  Voting is not the only thing though.  Asking for options before changes (like I did with the forum layout) was one thing for example.

Yeah just like politics choosing for a new president, letting people know what someone wants to change and after that all, votings!

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[Vash]

Vash

Re: Freedom of Speech

When the new administrator, me, was chosen, basically all of the moderators would have voted for me as well as Andrew and 2awesome4apossum.  The cat was already in the bag.  Voting can be done for other things in the future, and it will.  Voting is not the only thing though.  Asking for options before changes (like I did with the forum layout) was one thing for example.

Very true. I had done a silent poll of sorts to see who would be best to fit the gig. I polled users, mods, admins, former admins, etc, before picking who I did, hence why it took so long for me to replace Helios. Not *everyone* voted for 4sword, but the matter was very carefully discussed.

Also, Moldrill. Telling us '!@#$% You' (in reference to the post a few posts back where you told the moderation/administration to !@#$% off) is not a good way to achieve things around here. I realize lunar sparked the whole 'free speech' thing, and I do not agree with censorship at all, but there has to be some control, and being rude.. wont get you points with anyone, even amongst users.

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100

[Kame]

Kame

Re: Freedom of Speech

I have an idea of how it could work. Members would apply to be included on a voting commitee and staff and (maybe) other members of the voting commitee would have their own vote as to whether this person should be allowed in or not, based on activity, duration of membership, general intelligence relating to the community, and wilingness to participate. People in the voting commitee would hold polls about changes to the forums. Any member could dispute the results, and if the voting commitee changed their minds based on that, a re-voting could be held. I agree that guidelines should be set about certain issues that the voting commitee would not get a say in, though. And there'd have to be some obligations that voting commitee members would have to meet.

And that's my idea. Some fine-tuning would be in order if it was put into effect, but I think it'd actually do pretty well.

[DanTheMan]

DanTheMan

Re: Freedom of Speech

Going back a bit as I've been away all day.

!@#$% you. To all the staff at ZFGC who are enough of asses to take down hearts because of someone saying something. Its ridiculous.

Then what do you expect us to remove hearts for?  This is a message board.  People say things.  People do nothing BUT say things.  When their words become offensive, we moderate them.  It's fairly simple.

Moldrill was warned for 2 hearts because flaming is a 2-heart offense, as is clearly visible at http://www.zfgc.com/index.php?topic=14548.0
Andrew's reversal of the warning and heart restoration was a gift, as saying "!@#$% you" is indeed an insult and therefore flaming.  Please stop asking for the other one back, as it shows ungratefulness for Andrew's generosity.

Lunar, as TakaM said, the joke was not obvious, no matter how much it may have appeared like one to you.  Saying that someone's hard work is "ass" is not funny.  Again, I did realize at the time that it was similar to an Angry Videogame Nerd comment, but the AVGN has both vocal and facial expressions at his disposal to help convey the fact that it is a joke, in addition to the fact that people expect it to be a joke before it even begins.  Text is not nearly as forgiving, and in the Completed Projects forum, constructive criticism and comments are expected, not jokes.  Your post may have been intended as a joke, but to nearly everybody I've talked to, it was perceived as being highly offensive and disrespectful of someone's work.  Therefore, it was regarded as flaming/trolling and the hearts were taken away.

Concerning your PM about whether the hearts could be added back or not:  I had not responded yet because I was not 100% sure if the other mods felt the same way as I did.  However, I believe I can safely say that the general consensus is that they are going to stay.

Regardless of whether you consider it freedom of speech or not, we do have rules at this forum, and those who break them will be warned.  I quote the particular part of the rules that was violated upon in both instances:

- Rules and Regulations -

1. Treat people the way you want to be treated in return.
   1a. Flaming will not be tolerated; discrimination of any kind, or otherwise threating, offensive, or abusive nature towards another person or group will not be tolerated.                           
   1b. Respect people, their opinions, and ideas.

Both Lunar and Moldrill failed to act with respect for others and therefore were warned.  We want ZFGC to be a place where people are treated with respect, not malice.  Those who contribute nothing but malice will be dealt with accordingly.

What do you mean I need a life?  =P  Hm... Lives... Isn't that something that you get in Super Mario Bros?  You know, those green mushrooms?  That's a life, right?

My one and only fangame, Link Maze, may be viewed at http://www.zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=82.0

• 

[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: Freedom of Speech

!@#$% you. To all the staff at ZFGC who are enough of asses to take down hearts because of someone saying something. Its ridiculous.

That's so cute, you remind me of a young me. The ZFGC mods/admins are basically forum cops, if you say !@#$% you to cops in real life and swear at them, they will probably own you.

[Moldrill]

Moldrill

Re: Freedom of Speech

That wasnt a compliment was it.

[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: Freedom of Speech

That wasnt a compliment was it.

Nope, sadly it wasn't , i'm sorry

[Moldrill]

Moldrill

Re: Freedom of Speech

I dont mind. I'm usually not so much of a noob. Only when I am angry and tired. If I am just tired I just spew out jibberish onto the keyboard. If I am just angry I just dont post. But the combination of two makes me a retarded idiot. I seriously gotta work on that. When I am neither I act just fine. Like right now. (most people still think im wierd but i dont listen to thems)