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Author Topic: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?  (Read 5368 times)

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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2008, 12:21:28 am »
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Then again, Mario has been in several RPGs that turned out to be great games. Why couldn't Sonic also prevail in another genre?
The difference between Mario and Sonic is that Mario games get made by skilled people. I can't say that from Sonic, by just looking at those countless crappy Sonic games.
actually the difference between mario and son¡c is that sonic is a speed game and mario is more of a adventure game.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2008, 12:43:45 am »
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Then again, Mario has been in several RPGs that turned out to be great games. Why couldn't Sonic also prevail in another genre?
The difference between Mario and Sonic is that Mario games get made by skilled people. I can't say that from Sonic, by just looking at those countless crappy Sonic games.
actually the difference between mario and son¡c is that sonic is a speed game and mario is more of a adventure game.
You make a good point, lol.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2008, 12:47:37 am »
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Regardless of Sonic's recent shitiness, I trust Bioware to make something good out of it.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2008, 04:38:33 am »
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There are some developers that I feel can do no wrong. And Bioware, with its record of amazing, GOTY-quality RPGs is one of them. Simply playing Mass Effect or KOTR is evidence enough. Despite other recent Sonic outings, I have to agree with others in saying that I have faith that this will be a fantastic game. Of course, only time will tell, but I feel confident in the developer, and I feel confident that it will be a great game.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2008, 04:43:18 am »
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Even though I'm not a fan of the type of rpgs Bioware makes, they are excellent developers. What ever of there games I have seen by them look really solid, just not my cup of tea.

No doubt though that Sonic Rpg will turn out really interesting in the hands of Bioware! I'm definetly getting it, and I'm not even a Sonic fan.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2008, 07:19:16 am »
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I'm just...  not sure about this game.  Doubtless, BioWare is a great developer (although I DO have to say they screwed up with all the glitches and bugs in Mass Effect), but I just don't think Sonic will translate well into an RPG at this particular moment in time.  Mario RPG was made during a time of great prosperity for the Mario games, a time when Mario could do no wrong.  Most of the "main" Mario games as of NOW still can do no wrong.  Sunshine was a good game, Galaxy was freakin' amazing, Mario 64 was...  the best, and the handheld Mario platformers are great too.  But then, you have to look at the Sonic games.  Sonic 1 through 3 were good games.  Sonic and Knuckles was an "okay" game, too.  But once they hit us with Sonic 3D blast, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic the Hedgehog (360 (and ps3?)), and *shudders* Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic kinda lost his credibility, his speed, and his fun.  At this particular moment in time, making a Sonic RPG is an incredibly bad move.  Also, I believe the Mario story was quite a bit more...  simple and buildable when making Mario RPG.  Sonic's story is convoluted and has way too many characters, and the plot will probably become needlessly complex for being an RPG based on a simple platformer character. 

A Sonic RPG back during the good old Sonic days probably would have been great, but right now?  Probably not.  If BioWare simplifies the story, though, and makes the engine fvery simple, it might be good.  I trust BioWare, even after I was backstabbed with Ass Effect's superglitches.  BioWare is good, and Sonic is good, so hopefully they're combinable.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2008, 07:42:27 am »
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I'm just...  not sure about this game.  Doubtless, BioWare is a great developer (although I DO have to say they screwed up with all the glitches and bugs in Mass Effect), but I just don't think Sonic will translate well into an RPG at this particular moment in time.  Mario RPG was made during a time of great prosperity for the Mario games, a time when Mario could do no wrong.  Most of the "main" Mario games as of NOW still can do no wrong.  Sunshine was a good game, Galaxy was freakin' amazing, Mario 64 was...  the best, and the handheld Mario platformers are great too.  But then, you have to look at the Sonic games.  Sonic 1 through 3 were good games.  Sonic and Knuckles was an "okay" game, too.  But once they hit us with Sonic 3D blast, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic the Hedgehog (360 (and ps3?)), and *shudders* Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic kinda lost his credibility, his speed, and his fun.
Keep in mind that this is being made for the DS and that Sonic's legacy of being a GOOD series of games has lived on directly through the GBA and DS, even while each attempt at bringing Sonic into 3D gets, (arguably),  progressively worse.  I don't think it would be crazy to say that a good deal of people have enjoyed the newer 2D Sonic games for Nintendo handhelds as much, (or possibly even more), as the classic Sonic games.

I do agree that even while Bioware is typically a fantastic developer overall in terms of story telling and gameplay, (and that Mario's transition into the genre worked out as well as it did), there still remains a definite chance of this bombing hardcore.  As you said the characters and overall story from the Sonic universe have grown stale and convoluted over the years.  Honestly, I'd be much happier if this game only included Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles as far as pre-existing characters are concerned...but still, I think there is a very good chance that the game will be good.  My personal view is that the game will be praised by critics yet fail miserably commercially, ultimatley becoming a cult classic.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2008, 08:00:24 am »
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My personal view is that the game will be praised by critics yet fail miserably commercially, ultimatley becoming a cult classic.

One can only hope.  But yeah, I forgot that a lot of the DS and GBA sonic games were good.  Although there WAS that one Sonic GBA fighting game I didn't like...
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She'll pull out your feathers for her brand new hat and when she's done that she'll feed you to her cat.
People you love will turn their backs on you.  You'll lose your hair, your teeth. Your knife will fall of its sheath, but you still don't like to leave until the end of the movie.
If I threw my guitar out the window, so far down, would I start to regret it?  Or would I smile and watch it slowly fall?
Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2008, 10:26:15 am »
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Are you guys !@#$% kidding!?

Because bioware is behind this, I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be the best DS game of the year, seriously, have you even heard of bioware before?
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2008, 12:24:54 pm »
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I like Bioware, they make good games. KoToR, Mass Effect (I never encountered the bugs you all speak of in my 50 hours of playing that game through 5 times) and Neverwinter Nights are all awesome...and that's about all I've played by them.

What I'm disturbed by is them making a Sonic RPG at a time when Sonic can do no right. Sonic is something I honestly think they should just let die the slow and painful death it's experiencing. The graphics are also in 3D, which could spell doom for the game already ;)

The story also disturbs me slightly:
Eggman was defeated some time ago and Sonic has gone out to explore the rest of his world. He has been gone for a while and then gets a call from Tails - Knuckles has been kidnapped! Not only that, the chaos emeralds are disappearing!

*answers phone* Yes, person from a mile away? You saw that coming too?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 12:34:49 pm by TheDarkJay »
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2008, 04:43:55 pm »
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The graphics are also in 3D, which could spell doom for the game already ;)
Once again, Super Mario RPG.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2008, 04:59:55 pm »
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The graphics are also in 3D, which could spell doom for the game already ;)
Once again, Super Mario RPG.

Yes, but the Mario series contains many good 3D games.
The Sonic series, on the other hand, barely has any good 3D games, and every 3D game seems to be worse than the last.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2008, 05:02:40 pm »
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I'm going to wait and see how this turns out.
I have faith that Bioware can produce a good game even though it is Sonic.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2008, 06:32:48 am »
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Sonic Team isn't developing it, so like almost all handheld Sonic games not developed by Sonic Team, it should be good.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2008, 06:38:01 am »
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The graphics are also in 3D, which could spell doom for the game already ;)
Once again, Super Mario RPG.

Yes, but the Mario series contains many good 3D games.
The Sonic series, on the other hand, barely has any good 3D games, and every 3D game seems to be worse than the last.
Quit being ignorant, it's not being made by Sonic Team so you can't just label it as auto-suck or w/e because you don't know, and basing it off the other 3D Sonics makes you look stupid.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2008, 06:46:49 am »
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The graphics are also in 3D, which could spell doom for the game already ;)
Once again, Super Mario RPG.

Yes, but the Mario series contains many good 3D games.
The Sonic series, on the other hand, barely has any good 3D games, and every 3D game seems to be worse than the last.
Quit being ignorant, it's not being made by Sonic Team so you can't just label it as auto-suck or w/e because you don't know, and basing it off the other 3D Sonics makes you look stupid.

I can assure you sonic's failure in 3d is NOT just Sonic Team's fault. The whole point to sonic in the first place was playing through levels at blazing speeds. They're moving SO FAR away from the very thing that the game was based off of when it was created. That's why Sonic is failing. The 3d sonic games never properly delivered this aspect. It's not a developer issue, it's just that the game does NOT translate to 3d at all. On top of that, this is an RPG. EVEN FURTHER from the speed element yet. It's not going to work, I don't care how good Bioware is. It's a cash-in title for fanboys to buy, thats all. It's not going to amount to anything else, and it needs to accept that it's just one of those franchises that did not survive the transition to 3d. New Sonic games are like Naruto games. Retarded games appealing to only a certain audience. Believe it.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 06:53:10 am by Mamoruanime »
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2008, 10:09:46 am »
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I wonder what weapons he'll have? He might just fight with pure speed, but what projectile would he have?

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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2008, 01:03:31 pm »
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It's not going to amount to anything else, and it needs to accept that it's just one of those franchises that did not survive the transition to 3d. New Sonic games are like Naruto games. Retarded games appealing to only a certain audience. Believe it.

I see what you did thar! :B



Anyhow, I don't see what was the problem with the 3D Sonic games. I enjoyed Sonic Adventure and SA2 was okay. I haven't played the others to comment on them...

Sure, Sonic is supposed to be a fast paced game... but does that mean he can't take things slow for once? This game might not feel like Sonic game to those who liked the fast paced action of the originals, but it can appeal some. It can appeal to people who like Sonic, those who like RPGs indiscriminately, and those who like Sonic and RPGs... (and those who like Bioware).

Sales-wise, I doubt it'll fail. Game-wise... well its too early for that.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2008, 01:10:30 pm »
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Anyhow, I don't see what was the problem with the 3D Sonic games. I enjoyed Sonic Adventure and SA2 was okay. I haven't played the others to comment on them...
I agree, the first two weren't to bad. Its the rest that really let it down.
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Re: WTF? Sonics....bioware...Ds....rpg...why?
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2008, 02:35:05 pm »
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!@#$% senses tingling!

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(although I DO have to say they screwed up with all the glitches and bugs in Mass Effect)

Direct result of rushed development. Mass Effect needed more time for polish. The bugs don't really detract from the game as a whole though.

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Mario RPG was made during a time of great prosperity for the Mario games, a time when Mario could do no wrong.

Since Mario has gone 3D, the infamous plumber has had one really good game, that one being Super Mario Galaxy. (Not counting spinoffs) Mario RPG came out in 1996, the same time Mario 64 came out. Mario 64 set some new standards for games to follow at the time, but it was really a horrid piece of a !@#$%. There's nothing special about it. Graphics were bad for the time, sound was forgettable, gameplay was loose. It was just a victim of being one of the first now standard 3D games out. As for Mario RPG, the game is supposed to be pretty good, (Never played it personally) but at the same time, Nintendo didn't develop it. A younger Squaresoft that was on a roll at the time pumped out Mario RPG. Much like Bioware today.

On another note, Sonic's in great shape as a franchise. Sonic games sell like hotcakes. Does it matter if the <1% of fans who think the games are heaping piles of !@#$% don't buy them? No, SEGA still makes its money from the other 99%. To the now more business oriented SEGA-Sammy, Sonic's doing great, and there's absolutely no reason to fix what isn't broken. Outsourcing Sonic for an RPG now makes business sense.

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But once they hit us with Sonic 3D blast, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic the Hedgehog (360 (and ps3?)), and *shudders* Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic kinda lost his credibility, his speed, and his fun.

Sonic 1 - Considered a stepping stone for the franchise
Sonic 2 - Polished a great formula making a killer game
Sonic 3 - Added to Sonic 2, although changed the feel a little bit and was a lot shorter
Sonic and Knuckles - Back half of Sonic 3, fixes the length problem, lets you play as Knux.
Sonic 3D Blast - Experiment for Sonic in 3D through an isometric view. Overshadowed by Mario 64 which came later, and well... Just sucked.
Sonic X-Treme - Strange fish eye view game that was meant to combat Mario 64. The project was cut by Mr. Naka himself for unknown reasons. If you watch some of the recreated videos of the game, you can see why it was cut. It makes you dizzy.
Sonic Adventure - Considered a step in the right direction as Sonic transitioned to true 3D. Excellent game, especially for 1999.
Sonic Adventure 2 - One step forward, two steps backwards. Sonic stages were much more refined this time around, and made the game a killer app once it was ported to the GCN. Knux treasure hunting stages were bearable but not great, more refined from Adventure. The mech stages were dumbed down from Adventure, and they weren't that fun to begin with. Pretty good game overall.
Sonic Heroes - Take Adventure 2's speed stages, now add in some glitches, and take out most of the fun. Also, remove the original boss fights. You have Sonic Heroes. Sold millions in Europe alone. Poor game, huge success.
Sonic Rush - Portable Sonic with high speeds and great fun. Excellent game.
Sonic and the Secret Rings - On rails Sonic game that's considered excellent. Has some control issues until you get all the powerups, but what Wii game doesn't?
Sonic 06 - Deceptively great E3 trailer. Bad E3 demo. Worse overall game. This game didn't even have a release candidate made. SEGA of Japan said "WE WANT MONIEZ HAVE IT DONE BY THE HOLIDAYZ" so the game was released too early. Also, the debug team that handled this game did Shadow the Hedgehog. Apparently SEGA of America (Or maybe it was Europe, I don't remember) had to debug the game from scratch because the copy they received was literally unplayable. (Worse than Sonic 06) This had all the elements of a good game, it just suffered from load times, glitches, control issues, and furries.

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Also, I believe the Mario story was quite a bit more...  simple and buildable when making Mario RPG.

Mario Story - Princess Peach has been kidnapped. Go save her from Bowser.
Sonic Story - Flickies have been kidnapped. Go save them from Robotnik.

Bioware's not going to use the modern self-contained plot lines that add a new character every game. The only part of the Sonic plot that isn't self-contained concerns Shadow, with his origins and what happened to him after Adventure 2.

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My personal view is that the game will be praised by critics yet fail miserably commercially, ultimatley becoming a cult classic.

Considering the current state of things, that prediction is impossible. 99% chance it will sell fantastic. It will be come a classic if it's good.

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What I'm disturbed by is them making a Sonic RPG at a time when Sonic can do no right.

It's become trendy to call Sonic a dead franchise. Look at King of Fighters if you want an example of how a franchise can do a 180 after a period of stagnation. King of Fighter XII is going to be amazing, better than the crap Capcom's pumping out with Street Fighter. (Even your precious SF2HD)

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Yes, but the Mario series contains many good 3D games.

Mario 64 - As explained earlier, victimized by its times. Poor to mediocre game.
Super Mario Sunshine - They fixed up the mechanics, but added the FLUDD and changed the setting and atmosphere to something that Mario isn't. This one's average at best. Mario fans should've been repulsed by this thing honestly.
New Super Mario Bros. - Why hello there awkward physics! Not a true 3D Mario but Mario didn't have enough to cover really. This game was fun for the first level and then became a chore. Poor.
Super Mario Galaxy - AAA title. GotY IMO. Turn around for the Mario series.

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They're moving SO FAR away from the very thing that the game was based off of when it was created.

Myth: Sonic is built off of speedy gameplay.
Fact: Sonic games are about engaging platforming, much like Mario. The two series are very similar, Sonic just happens to be slightly faster paced (You can thank Sonic 2 for that) Most of the games that tried to focus on RAW SPEED sucked. Advance 2, Sonic Heroes, 06 Speed Stages, etc. The trick to a good Sonic game is a mixture of atmosphere and fun platforming, mixed with variety.

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New Sonic games are like Naruto games. Retarded games appealing to only a certain audience.

R-Word. Don't. etc.

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I wonder what weapons he'll have?

So far screen indicate that Sonic and co attack like they do in the platformers. Sonic will roll up into a ball and beat the !@#$% out of robots. Projectiles? Shadow had guns, he'll probably get them.
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