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[Dracon]

Dracon

What we need more of is villans

So I was thinking about why people create fantasy stories, and how they almost always have a standard "hero versus villain" plot. Then I started thinking about the fascination that people have had for that over the centuries, if not millenniums. Then I started to wonder, what if the reason that we are fascinated by that kind of story is that we are deep down longing to live it? And if we are, was it because we were meant to be that way, as in we are "programmed" to fit the Fantasy Hero's archetype? Then I started to wonder why we don't live that kind of life. Clearly the first thing to come to mind was the good ´ol "blame society". In our modern society, we can live safe, structured, and agonizingly boring lives. Everything is made to be as practical as possible. Having an extravegant adventure is not practical, and it is therefore unacceptable in society. What are we missing the most though? We are missing villains. The villains, just like the heroes, must have been consumed by society to live safe, structured, and practical lives. I'm sure there are people that are DYING to have evil empires, commanding brutal armies on horseback. But they aren't allowed to. Even the worthy villains seem to get tired of it, and end up being politicians or something that allows them to be less evil about their deeds. The result is that we are running out of villains, and with no villains, there are no heroes. And that's a bore. Everyone deserves a Ganondorf to thier Link.
Thoughts? Opinions? Accusations of insanity?
Sorry if this sounds a bit... crazy. It sounded really good in my head.

And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.

[Kyubi]

Kyubi

Re: What we need more of is villans

The problem is, all the villains are either leaders of countries, or we only find they're a villain after they've been caught.

I'm sure there are people that are DYING to have evil empires, commanding brutal armies on horseback. But they aren't allowed to.

Also LOL. I can just imagine a great horseback army bristling with huge men bearing the heads of their enemies galloping into the city, and stopping dead in their tracks when a policeman says, "you're not allowed".

Gannon-banned brother.

[Dracon]

Dracon

Re: What we need more of is villans

With this huge deficit of villans, it´s a realty problem to have these many closet villans. They need to come to terms with thier evil wills.

And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.

[TheDarkJay]

TheDarkJay

Re: What we need more of is villans

In games like Knights of the Old republic on my first play through of the game is always through the 'dark side'. and when I play through the other times and play with other alliances, I'm always fighting that little voice in my head that screams "No, kill him, don't talk it out! Bring out your lightsaber and bring the pain! Now, take over his robot armada and CONQUER THE UNIVERSE!" xD It's because in theory playing the villain is fun, in reality it does nothing for you as the average person.

All characters I come up with for stories could be called evil, in that they always put themselves above others. Sure, they may kill villains, but it's because it was either die, become a slave, or kill the villain. In other words, my heroes and villains are only ever separated by the results of their actions, not their desires or intentions. If they unite a country under them by peaceful talks, it's because launching a campaign of terror and cruelty simply would have taken too much effort.

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: What we need more of is villans

Wow, Dracon, you think like a true neo-conservative.  If you are unfamiliar with that concept, I am essentially saying that you believe that the state needs a perceived enemy so that the state can exist and prosper against the enemy.  Your examination onto the hero ideal overlooks the biggest enemy of all, one's self doubts and negative drives.  However, most of the villain types you mentioned are not going to exist anymore due to the elimination of the class system for the most part and the lack of conquest on a large scale.  Villains of the past that are recalled by history are the climax of the villain archetype, but for the most part villains are more relative and local to one's self; society in recent times has just tuned down their severity and influence.

[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: What we need more of is villans

Wow, Dracon, you think like a true neo-conservative.  If you are unfamiliar with that concept, I am essentially saying that you believe that the state needs a perceived enemy so that the state can exist and prosper against the enemy.  Your examination onto the hero ideal overlooks the biggest enemy of all, one's self doubts and negative drives.  However, most of the villain types you mentioned are not going to exist anymore due to the elimination of the class system for the most part and the lack of conquest on a large scale.  Villains of the past that are recalled by history are the climax of the villain archetype, but for the most part villains are more relative and local to one's self; society in recent times has just tuned down their severity and influence.

If you think the class system doesn't exist any more, than you're sadly deluded. Wealth and income inequality have always, and will always, create class divides. With the massive inequity that exists right now, in every country in the world, and an alarming lack of social mobility - besides a few "text book" examples - the class system is possibly more prevalent than ever.

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: What we need more of is villans

Which is why I said "for the most part".  Compared to the past, their are fewer oligarchies and I was more or less describing governmental systems; I was really focusing in my mind at the time on the feudal system and how their are kings, lords, etc.  Economics create some class system, but if the government is alright and has the ability to lead itself well, then economic class systems can be overcome.

[TheDarkJay]

TheDarkJay

Re: What we need more of is villans

The problem with the concept of villains and heroes is it assumes evil and good, when really nobody is good, nobody is evil. We merely do what suits us best, whatever that may be. If it's murder, or if it's giving to charity, the core reasons for the actions change very little. We can only call someone a villain or a hero when looking back or at events from the outside, because often then we can see either a bigger picture or have the benefit of hindsight denied to those whom we label, or when we find ourselves on the opposite camp. One Man's hero is another's villain.

[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: What we need more of is villans

Which is why I said "for the most part".  Compared to the past, their are fewer oligarchies and I was more or less describing governmental systems; I was really focusing in my mind at the time on the feudal system and how their are kings, lords, etc.  Economics create some class system, but if the government is alright and has the ability to lead itself well, then economic class systems can be overcome.

Government is by nature an oligarchy. No government in the world is a true democracy; at best, the people select candidates to make decisions for them. Of these candidates, the rich, wealthy, affluent, well-educated are over representated. Is that an oligarchy enough for you?

And government has never and will never successfully overcome economic class structures.

The problem with the concept of villains and heroes is it assumes evil and good, when really nobody is good, nobody is evil. We merely do what suits us best, whatever that may be. If it's murder, or if it's giving to charity, the core reasons for the actions change very little. We can only call someone a villain or a hero when looking back or at events from the outside, because often then we can see either a bigger picture or have the benefit of hindsight denied to those whom we label.

Some people kill for fun; they do what they know is wrong because they know it's wrong. Is that evil enough for ya?

[TheDarkJay]

TheDarkJay

Re: What we need more of is villans

They get a rush out of it. People give to charity because it makes them feel better about themselves. They get a rush out of it.
Same basic desire, the desire to feel good, different methods of gaining it.

Also, in their head, they somehow have their actions justified. They, to themselves, can justify their actions (the reasons may not make sense to anyone else). To themselves, they aren't the villain. If they actually believe they are evil, odds are they are mentally ill or a movie character (little joke there).

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: What we need more of is villans

Government nature is not statically oligarchical.  If oligarchy is by definition a small group of ruling officials, then that could really be anything depending on how much you want to torture the definition of the word.  Political parties are like oligarchical groups when they assume power, but because different groups can assume power, it is not so static but dynamic.  Control is not always held by one group.  And pure democracy is impractical in this day and time due to population size.  However, in the future, if the Internet becomes a greater tool that can be more secure and is something that everyone has, there is a chance that it could be.  The populous is responsible for itself though and under any government touting itself as a democracy, it is problematic to blame the system.  Those who do not take part are the ones who are to blame for the most part (there are times when government regulations affect people's ability to do things like voting, but those issues can be fixed).

Also, the economic class structure in modern states is something that can be overcome due to capitalism itself (if you have a good product and a lot of people by it) or just in how the government makes it so that you can declare bankruptcy (you are protected from being completely destitute and you do not live in utter squalor).  Humans screwing each other constantly and pooping out babies doesn't really help the world though.  Until resources are managed better by individual choice and government limits, then some things cannot be helped.

[TheDarkJay]

TheDarkJay

Re: What we need more of is villans

If you left the world in the hands of it's people, you might as well destroy it, because the majority of people are idiots. We need an elite group of leaders in some form. Voting for them and allowing the public to vote merely keeps them in line by stopping them from becoming too corrupt. People need to fear the leaders, and the leaders need to fear the people. It's a fickle balance, but a balance none-the-less.