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Author Topic: Project Natal - Xbox 360  (Read 1393 times)

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Project Natal - Xbox 360
« on: June 01, 2009, 08:14:50 pm »
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Wow, project Natal looks pretty damn cool if they can get it to work 100% like they say it will.

http://kotaku.com/5274317/microsoft-makes-you-the-motion-controller-with-project-natal

Although when that girl was showing off the breakout looking thing it sometimes didn't seem to capture her movements all that well.
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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 08:27:56 pm »
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I doubt it works like that article makes it out, because facial recognition isn't that advanced yet and computers aren't powerful enough to do it in real-time while rendering a game. I think it will work more like Sony's Eye-toy.
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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 08:35:46 pm »
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I doubt it works like that article makes it out, because facial recognition isn't that advanced yet and computers aren't powerful enough to do it in real-time while rendering a game. I think it will work more like Sony's Eye-toy.

Have you watched the videos?  It's actually amazingly !@#$% hi-tech and amazing.

There are two cameras on it, so it can actually process depth, which means it recieves a 3-dimensional image of what you're doing-- so it can actually do 3-dimensional interaction with an exact picture of you.

The tech demo that peter Molyneux (sp?) did was !@#$% amazing-- he insisted it was all real-time and not scripted-- this several minute long conversation between an ai kid and this lady, and it was !@#$% amazing; he read her emotions/face/tone/etc apparently and reacted accordingly and it looked like two people having a conversation. pretty fuckin' impressive

Also, the 3d-ness allowed for some fantastic animation in that 3d-breakout game.
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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 08:44:05 pm »
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Intresting. I'm going to reserve my judgement on this before I actually see it physically being used, there are a lot of limitations that will need to be overcome to have this work correctly.

Quote
Have you watched the videos?  It's actually amazingly !@#$% hi-tech and amazing.
The only videos I've seen are "trailers" / "previews" (haven't been through all the e3 footage yet, forgive me if I've missed something), things that are quite likely to have been minipulated to show the product in its best light.

Quote
There are two cameras on it, so it can actually process depth, which means it recieves a 3-dimensional image of what you're doing-- so it can actually do 3-dimensional interaction with an exact picture of you.
He's not talking about getting the image or depth. Getting that is easy, the difficultly is in actually processing that textural data with speed high enough to be used real time. Thats not to say it can't be done without cutting some corners, but its going to be one hell of a processor hog one way or othe other.

I'm pretty sure the videos have been heavily minipulated at any rate. For example did you see the part where the kid holds up the skateboard and gets it scanned in? Notice there are no "hands" in the texture within the game, something that would be impossible to remove accuractly computationally.
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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 09:24:15 pm »
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Have you watched the videos?  It's actually amazingly fuggin hi-tech and amazing.

There are two cameras on it, so it can actually process depth, which means it recieves a 3-dimensional image of what you're doing-- so it can actually do 3-dimensional interaction with an exact picture of you.

The tech demo that peter Molyneux (sp?) did was fuggin amazing-- he insisted it was all real-time and not scripted-- this several minute long conversation between an ai kid and this lady, and it was fuggin amazing; he read her emotions/face/tone/etc apparently and reacted accordingly and it looked like two people having a conversation. pretty fuckin' impressive

Also, the 3d-ness allowed for some fantastic animation in that 3d-breakout game.

Nope I haven't seen the videos, but when I have the time I will take a look. Like Infini said, I wasn't talking about the actual getting the picture, but the analyses of it. I don't claim it can't be done, because their are some really good algorithms and models. The article says that several things are done at the same time:

1) Facial recognition for emotion.
2) Speech and Language processing/filtering of the received audio.
3) Motion analyses of the body.
4) Response formulation.
5) Maintaining a 3D virtual world.

Each of the 5 parts are very taxing tasks. Each on their own are possible to do in real-time on strong computers, but to do it in real-time together requires a super computer or several parallel running strong computers. You could cut some corners with approximations, time scheduling and leveled detail analyses.

For the response formulation, they probably cut corners to have a specific knowledge base about a few popular subjects and not to much detail. Additionally some preprocessed responses were already in the system. And the woman was probably also limited to the questions and answers she could give.

The last thing that makes me think, that a lot is exaggerated is that a computer is somewhat the opposite of the human brain. A computer is a master at making heavy and difficult calculations. It does it with a snap of the finger. But it is lousy at pattern recognition. This gives a problem. Each person is different in appearance and voice. Even the smallest variation in pattern is a big obstacle for a computer. So the machine learning algorithms need to be train to the user before it can make reasonably accurate analyses.

But like I said it isn't entirely impossible to do it in real-time. What I seriously doubt is that the Xbox360 has the processor power to do it, together in realtime.
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Xiphirx

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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2009, 12:05:50 am »
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I think it's going to be the next EyeToy. The reason the Wiimote works is because the Wii strictly depends on it. the X360 has a controller, and that is the primary means of input (much like the PS2, main input is a controller).
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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2009, 12:37:32 am »
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Ya, they made out Wii-motion controls to be amazing when it came out. Microsoft's doing the same thing. I won't judge it until I've tried it.
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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2009, 01:34:19 am »
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Apparently the Natal itself has its own processor in order to take some load off of the 360.
Still a little skeptical, but optimistic, about this though.
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Mamoruanime

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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 01:40:40 am »
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Hmm... I don't think it's a good idea. Controllers ftw IMO.


Now PS3's PS-I or w/e is freaking amazing O_o;;
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DJvenom

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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2009, 01:43:18 am »
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmY0JNRIPOU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmY0JNRIPOU</a>
ahahahhahahahha! Although it did cut to just the avatar, so Kudo might have made his arm go through his neck off-screen.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 01:45:13 am by DJvenom »
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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2009, 06:11:13 am »
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Apparently the Natal itself has its own processor in order to take some load off of the 360.
Still a little skeptical, but optimistic, about this though.

Hmm, an extra processor would help. But I think it will be mostly done to pre-process data. Anything more and it probably will limit what the developers can do with it. Or Microsoft has to allow the developers to program the Natal's processor.
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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2009, 06:54:24 am »
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I know I certainly can't wait to interact with virtual little boys :P just kidding but this does sort of look interesting though it still faces the fundamental problem that all motion controls have in that if I move very much in the real world I'm not in front of the TV anymore.
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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2009, 09:33:43 am »
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It sure looks exciting but I think it's wise to not get hyped too much and wait for the final product.
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rhalifax

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Re: Project Natal - Xbox 360
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 01:35:29 pm »
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everyone keeps saying oh this was rigged blah blah blah that was rigged. honestly most of it probably was, but if they stick to what theyre saying it could be pretty awesome. but it will probably be like the wii, crappy motion issues. and kudo is a complete tool
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