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Author Topic: Developer & Site Staff Ranks  (Read 2172 times)

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Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« on: January 26, 2010, 11:22:54 pm »
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Developer -

    This is going to be something new, although it has existed in some less and weaker form on ZFGC previously. The Developer rank will be given to users who are working project that is officially approved for and in the Sponsored board, those who have made significant contributions to and are working on the Community Project, and possibly certain users active in the Resource boards who give helpful assistance to other users or who would be interested in making the Resource boards more navigable by maintaining resource list topics.

    Developers amongst themselves have a commonality that the Site Staff did not which should make collaborative efforts easier. Additionally, the Site Staff work which related to development would be better managed by those who are more likely to actually be in the development process. For example, Developers with projects in the Sponsored board would have access to the site's news themselves and would be able to assist with future development events directly instead of having the Site Staff as a go-between.

Site Staff -

    The Site Staff was started to get more site content, to hold regular events, and to provide occasional miscellaneous help. As was made clear previously and what would likely still happen later is that the Site Staff did not and perhaps could not exist as a cohesive team. This resulted in a complete inability to get the simplest of tasks completed; and if a task were done it was only because an individual stepped up and did most of it.

    Because of this, the Site Staff rank is formally over. Its purpose will be redistributed to some combination of the staff and community. Users who make news items or help out with contests and events with a regular frequency would still be able to have the Site Staff rank. Beyond that, users who do the same with with non-regular frequency will be accommodated for when they need to be. More than likely that will consist of having the Site Staff rank privately for the purposes of being able to post news articles on the site and having a meeting place for contest/event management (a reworked Site Staff board).


As always if there are any questions feel free to post them as replies to this here or to send me a PM about it.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 02:25:25 am by 4Sword »
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Re: Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2010, 02:44:42 am »
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Also, the Team/Sponsored board has been simply renamed Sponsored. This is in part due to the Developer Rank in that those working on ZFGC-approved individual and team projects and those working on the Community Project would both have that.

The GM Minish Cap Engine is still the Community Project, and it was moved to the now Sponsored board because in its essence it is like a team project except that it must be open to all community users, is the de facto ZFGC project, and isn't as restricted on progress updates due to its usefulness to and for ZFGC. Having it in the Sponsored board also promotes the system's use.
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DJvenom

super-sage
Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2010, 05:23:21 am »
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Pretty lame unnecessary vanity !@#$%. How about rather then only catering to things YOU are interested in, how about make the forum more appealing to new users, and also familiar to older members? Who wants to join a forum that has 7,000 layers to being just a regular member? All those stupid ranks do is segregate members. There needs to be 3 ranks. Admin, Moderator, Member. Member of the month too, if that's even still in effect... That's it! Not "Spriter" "Musician" "Programmer" "Guy who got banned 4 times" or anything that differentiates a group of regular members from the other members... And myself being a more seasoned ZFGC member, am sick of seeing gimmick after gimmick applied to the forum in an attempt to stir up activity, only to have them all be pruned in the first few months of them being instated.

If someone is a developer, good for them. They don't need a special rank to point them out. If a member is interested in creating an open source game (which is essentially what your "team/sponsored" !@#$% is.), do we not have development forums?

These new additions, as well as a big part of a LOT of the recent additions you've added cater to yourself. YOUR GM minish cap engine is the only engine on that board, and aren't you the head of the Community Project?

Having to explain why you voted for a project for project of the month is also stupid. All it does is pit members against members, unless you also explain why you DIDN'T vote for another game... In short, it was another attempt to fix something that wasn't broken...

That's all any of this stuff is. You're so busy trying to patch up stuff that isn't broken, that the most important issues are slipping through the holes you're ignoring.

In short: Stop coming up with ideas, and have an open-ended discussion with people who care about the actual community as to what they like/dislike about ZFGC.
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I do art for Twindrills!
I ermmm... DID do art for Cryamore!
I do art for WayForward!
Re: Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2010, 06:06:12 am »
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Pretty lame unnecessary vanity !@#$%. How about rather then only catering to things YOU are interested in, how about make the forum more appealing to new users, and also familiar to older members? Who wants to join a forum that has 7,000 layers to being just a regular member? All those stupid ranks do is segregate members. There needs to be 3 ranks. Admin, Moderator, Member. Member of the month too, if that's even still in effect... That's it! Not "Spriter" "Musician" "Programmer" "Guy who got banned 4 times" or anything that differentiates a group of regular members from the other members... And myself being a more seasoned ZFGC member, am sick of seeing gimmick after gimmick applied to the forum in an attempt to stir up activity, only to have them all be pruned in the first few months of them being instated.

If someone is a developer, good for them. They don't need a special rank to point them out. If a member is interested in creating an open source game (which is essentially what your "team/sponsored" !@#$% is.), do we not have development forums?

These new additions, as well as a big part of a LOT of the recent additions you've added cater to yourself. YOUR GM minish cap engine is the only engine on that board, and aren't you the head of the Community Project?

Having to explain why you voted for a project for project of the month is also stupid. All it does is pit members against members, unless you also explain why you DIDN'T vote for another game... In short, it was another attempt to fix something that wasn't broken...

That's all any of this stuff is. You're so busy trying to patch up stuff that isn't broken, that the most important issues are slipping through the holes you're ignoring.

In short: Stop coming up with ideas, and have an open-ended discussion with people who care about the actual community as to what they like/dislike about ZFGC.
I knew that if anybody other than me was getting sick of this and would speak up, it would be you. I love you, Jordan. <.<

I really don't think I have anything else to add to what Jordan said here, other than that I completely agree.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2010, 06:21:19 am »
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I too think it's a tad lame to separate programmers from everyone else, as I have been a firm supporter for the fact that it takes more than a programmer to make a game. Development is about all aspects; the programming, the story, the artwork, and the music. You can't have a game without all aspects. As I've mentioned on MSN, most typically, your musicians and artists will make more off of a project than your programmer will, and I say that from real world experience and real world industry connections.

I think there are better ways to branch out to users. I too feel there isn't enough development on this forum, however trying to make the current users feel pressured to become developers is the wrong way to go. Instead we should be focusing on giving people a reason to come here. Start adding useful content in the portal (which was the intention to begin with <_< offer a robust resource for developers on the portal, and a community for the discussion), and branching out to other communities. Affiliation is a good place to start as well.

*shrugs* There are just so many things that can be done without making our members feel cheap for not being developers.
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50% Game Development,
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100% Programancy.
  • Tyler & Travis also David... Probably.
Re: Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2010, 09:46:24 am »
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The nominations/voting procedure for the Project of the Month is far better than having it be decided in secret by the staff. Users haven't been pitted against each other as you've said either; e.g. someone who voted for Surface doesn't hate Sword of Divination. The worst thing in that topic was the sound and the fury over a 1 sentence requirement; heck, I let haiku be acceptable, I'm a Nazi. My biggest personal gripe with the old system is that often I'd have to do most of the work to put out something worthwhile for the community, while your biggest gripe is that you don't care enough about the project you voted for to give 1 sentence on its behalf.

The Developer rank has meaning beyond vanity and isn't meant to segregate; it certainly has more validity than the "Idiot" rank someone made that one time on Invisionfree. The rank had been discussed by the staff and members for months. It is meant to give users an incentive to actively developer their projects instead of just letting them die; and in turn getting the ability to post project updates in the news feed for the site and collaborate as staff on development related events. It also benefits ZFGC encouraging more team and community based projects. It is not given out to all those who develop either.

Of course these changes are what I care about, my interests are one and the same with those of the community and its purpose. The Community Project is something that I want users to use or learn from so that there can be more projects made here. If the Developer rank fails, there was no harm in trying; if it succeeds at all then cool beans. A big problem on this forum is getting existing users to care at least a little bit; to the point where if new users came in and saw the no-care they wouldn't really want to be here because of that. The Shadowgazer got a lot of users here but even that didn't keep them. The resource portal is being worked on but its worth is also determined by the existing user base supplying it with useful content.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 09:48:26 am by 4Sword »
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DJvenom

super-sage
Re: Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2010, 10:00:35 am »
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We're ZFGC, not spriters-resource. Why do we need a portal? We are a forum, not a website. Any portal we have should have 5-10 most recent posts, and the general forum stats. Not "Well, you're here at the portal, do you wanna go to the staff page, the chatroom, the rules page, the forum, or the resources section, or the tutorials section, or the projects section?" http://www.zfgc.com/ should link STRAIGHT to the forum section. And all that crap it links to can be found ON the forum. "Archiving" be damned... half the !@#$% that is submitted is either stolen, subpar, or not even relevant. Games are the only exception, but links to them can be found in their respective topics anyways.
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Re: Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2010, 10:08:19 am »
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The site is a useful tool for displaying resources for development as well as giving users a place beyond a mostly text-based forum structure. Infini and Windy's work on that stuff is pretty awesome and its usefulness can't really be denied; and really, the site's future a smoother integration with the forum which is something you might like as well. That will virtually eliminate the redundancy of the system as you see it now.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 10:09:53 am by 4Sword »
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Mamoruanime

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Re: Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2010, 10:52:13 am »
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We're ZFGC, not spriters-resource. Why do we need a portal? We are a forum, not a website. Any portal we have should have 5-10 most recent posts, and the general forum stats. Not "Well, you're here at the portal, do you wanna go to the staff page, the chatroom, the rules page, the forum, or the resources section, or the tutorials section, or the projects section?" http://www.zfgc.com/ should link STRAIGHT to the forum section. And all that crap it links to can be found ON the forum. "Archiving" be damned... half the !@#$% that is submitted is either stolen, subpar, or not even relevant. Games are the only exception, but links to them can be found in their respective topics anyways.

I personally feel the portal is a must-have mainly from the standpoint of finding the resources that are in the graphics/etc boards. With it having never been finished (grrr infini :P) with sorting/searching features, it's pretty useless atm. The biggest thing is that if, for example someone tries to start their own fangame, they don't want to search for 300 hours for decent resources. A lot of the resource links in our graphics boards are broken, and TSR provides fairly poor rips (since TSR rips are not meant for game development. They're just not tooled towards that, and are all around poor in general). Topics also have poor search features, and that's a lot of the basis behind the (unfinished <_< grrr infini) portal :s Honestly, I think the portal's a good thing, however it's never been utilized properly, and obviously lacks some major functionality that it was supposed to have (which Windy has officially fixed in the new version of the portal). I personally don't see it as being (or even how it could be) a harmful part of the community at all since anything that provides a means to productivity has to be something productive anyway. I do however think that as long as we lack users who provide the same resources ZFGC used to be rich of, it's not useful either. That's why flameshunning our new users is a pretty horrible thing imo *glares at specific ZFGCers who have done that to new users*. I also think that submissions to the portal should be screened for authenticity, credit, etc. I never envisioned it to be something for someone to upload someone else's work. I also generally don't like the staff page links and such, because they defeat the purpose of that thing anyway. Recent posts, resources, and fan games. Simple.
~

In general, we need to grow as a community, not as a just a group of developers OR a social group. We need both. That was what made ZFGC so effective in the beginning. We had resources (plenty of people helping out; ripping, creating new ones, etc), we had developers making the games, and we had the conversationalists playing the games and critiquing the resources. It was a perfect blend. The thing the portal brings to the table is an outlet to share the resources, the developers to use the resources, and the conversationalists to critique them openly. The graphics/other boards as I see it are more meant for things that aren't meant to be made 100% public. WIP graphics/audio/stories/etc, and just general fun artwork. All in all the portal doesn't really hurt the board as much as the board is hurting itself as it is now.

Things are generally settled right now and not much is going on for people. Nobody really cares to do much of anything with the exception of a small group of people. We have a few developers, a few spriters, a few musicians, and a few conversationalists. It's a good kindling flame to have this diverse group the way it is without smothering it out. I think if things become overcomplicated, it just doesn't work anymore, and the flame is put out. It needs to be treated as if it's a new forum; simple, and accommodating. Lately it's been pretty brutal and harsh for some (and from some), and a lot of people who came to join in on what used to be fun for all of the original ZFGC users has been beaten out of them by rudeness or lack of helpfulness. We all have to start somewhere.

Even if someone makes some !@#$% game/graphic/audio/story, we all started there. We've all made some pretty lame !@#$% starting out, and it eventually grew into some pretty amazing product. The conversationalists gave us a point of view we couldn't get normally, and it helped us grow. Just needs to be like that again, instead of "your shits lame and I hate you because you !@#$% suck and you're a noob" all of the time.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 11:00:19 am by Mamoruanime »
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50% Game Development,
50% Crappy Art,
100% Programancy.
  • Tyler & Travis also David... Probably.
Re: Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2010, 11:31:02 pm »
  • (y)(;>.<;)(y)
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If you want to encourage developers and community, the problem is it's a small community and these kinds of things are great and seem better suited for much larger communities.

If we were bigger being able to mark yourself as things like "Programmer", "Artist", "Musician", that kind of thing, would serve a purpose in making it easier for people to find team mates who specialise and for us to know what everyone's speciality is, but again with so small a collection of individuals...

Edit: It also probably doesn't help that most people here aged, we grew up. And age breeds cynicism. We see new users with their hopes and dreams and we know they're doomed to fail like we did. So we try to steer them the right way, but in the wrong way (I'd equate it to the character Gregory House XD). Instead, we should encourage failure, because that's how we learnt and it's the only way they'll learn ^^
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 11:42:09 pm by TheDarkJay »
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DJvenom

super-sage
Re: Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2010, 11:40:18 pm »
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Ooh! How about add a profile dropbox for what you specialize in?
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I do art for Twindrills!
I ermmm... DID do art for Cryamore!
I do art for WayForward!
Re: Developer & Site Staff Ranks
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 05:31:28 am »
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One idea I had way back was what I referred to as "Skill Cards" which included a set of skills that you would be rated on by the community and then people would submit recruitment requests and then the system would point out to you projects it think you would be good for.  I imagine that it would be too time consuming for me to implement though.

Further down the track assuming the site is up I'm hoping to incorporate an achievement system into projects/teams which is designed to minimally increase project activity.  It provide small rewards for things like popularity (reaching a certain number of views/downloads etc.), progress (reaching a certain percentage, putting screenshots/downloads up, being updated frequently) and for team participation (starting a team project, getting a certain number of members working towards the project etc.).

That's what I would like to do anyway.

If you want to mark yourself I would suggest doing it in your personal text, it's the easiest way and doesn't require any changes.
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