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Author Topic: OOT2D Map Project - Accepting Community Sprites - Read  (Read 92121 times)

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Re: OOT2D Map Project - Update
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2010, 05:18:58 PM »
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I like it a lot. Well it would be better if it didn't have the pink lines. There are a few remarks I have to give though.

1) The teleport pads perspective is good, but the forest medal icon is not really visible. But then again you probably want some uniformity in teleport pads. For ALttP you probably want to leave the icons of and the pad just as it is. For OOT the icons are necessary.

2) At the bottom there is a gate to the sacred groove that initially blocks Link's progress. Link has to defeat a Wolfos to open it. Thus there should be a gate at the first narrowing of the path.

3) The top ladder that leads up on the cliff is rather impractical. I don't think there are Link sprites that face down when climbing a ladder. You probably are better of using a ladder on the south side of a cliff or another bridge from the higher part of the path.

4) I have also questions about the practicality of hookshotting to the entrance of the Forest Temple. In OOT you have to hookshot Link from the tree stump to the tree branch. It looks awesome as it is now, but again I see the programming problems arise with such a level layout.
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Brendan McCoy

Re: OOT2D Map Project - Update
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2010, 05:41:36 PM »
@Tifftuff of course =P I only feel guilty because it's Link[ette]

@MaJoRa I also wanted to mention the tree branch. While it does look cool, there are... well, the other guy said it. Programmability issues.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project - Update
« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2010, 11:34:01 AM »
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Right, apologies for not bothering to reply for a while but again I find myself faced with the memory issue with my PC. To put it into perspective, I have 2GB of ram in total, the screenshot below shows what MSPaint is using alone:



Editing the image 90% of the time I get not enough memory errors, this is with a 2GB readyboost device plugged in, so I can only assume that Paint cant see the readyboost memory for whatever reason. I have tried splitting it and opening all the images so I can still copy / paste etc, I get the same issue. It would seem MSPaint is amazingly dreadful at managing memory, as GIMP opens it using only 300MB, but it is just too highly impractical to use for mapping at all.


Basically I am stuck in the position where I cannot edit the map at the moment, so I am editing bits here and there and doing what I can with it split, but it takes significantly longer.

I have made some changes to the Sacred Forest Meadows based on your suggestions, so please let me know what you think:



I have changed the tree to a stump on the ledge for players to grapple, and changed where the north facing ladder is. Since the fence which blocks link at the start will be something that is added / removed I have left this to the programmer (as I have in Lon Lon for example where the gate blocks link from leaving when he competes to get Epona).
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 11:51:33 AM by MaJoRa »
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Brendan McCoy

Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2010, 04:38:27 PM »
Try Paint.net... it's always worked fine for me. Though I dunno if it'd be impractical for mapping... just a suggestion, it's an incredibly light weight program that has a small download.

Edit: Paint.net is pretty much a super light version of photoshop, with layers and layer blending, built in effects, color and brightness adjustments etc. A lot of people don't like the anti-aliasing on it, but they don't seem to realize it can be turned off (via the... what i call half swastika that when you highlight it says anti-aliasing)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 05:46:58 PM by Brendan McCoy »
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2010, 05:43:32 PM »
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Really, I find GIMP easier to use than Paint. Especially with layers I could try various things out.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2010, 09:43:40 PM »
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Nice job MaJoRa, though I would keep the first version regarding the entrance to the forest temple, I don't see how it should be any harder to program with the tree branch rather than with the small wooden pole you've placed. Apart from that, I am eagerly awaiting Gerudo Fortress!
As for the Paint issues, you could perhaps try to use GM's map editor or Helios' World Artist?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 09:45:02 AM by AleX_XelA »
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2010, 06:55:31 AM »
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Nice job MaJoRa, though I would keep the first version regarding the entrance to the forest temple, I don't see how it should be any harder to program with the tree branch rather than with the small wooden pole you've placed.

I have to agree. The problem with it isn't solved. The problem is the conversion from 3D to 2D. In the original OOT you need to shoot diagonally and up. Something that you can't do in the 2D games. First of all you can only shoot horizontal and vertical. Although a 45 degree diagonal could still be programmed. The biggest problem however is that you also need to be at the same level. In your version when using the hookshot it makes it seem like it is both at the same level, thus you could walk up to it as well.

My advice is to make a high ledge where you climb up with a ladder and then hookshot over a gap to the entrance.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2010, 07:57:45 AM »
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I agree with Niek's ledge advice. You have to "reimagine" certain elements when it comes to 3d to 2d conversions. I think for that particular area it'd be nice to see a scalable cliff (steps or something) on the left or right of the temple, with a small outstretching piece of land facing the hookshot ledge.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2010, 02:54:04 AM »
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Hopefully this is not imposing.. but you are more than welcome to use my gossip stone if needed.

This is coming along very well, I am extremely impressed and it greatly inspires me. I remember waiting for so long to see what Daniel Barras could cook up in the original OOT2d project, but he never delivered. This is how things like this SHOULD be developed. Not teasing along and along, but actually putting it out there and getting input from the community.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 02:59:52 AM by Master Yoshi »
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2010, 01:48:57 AM »
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I would add some holes on the ground for the temple area.. . and remove the whole broken bridge thing. 
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2010, 10:57:59 AM »
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I would add some holes on the ground for the temple area.. . and remove the whole broken bridge thing. 
Yep, keep the bridge/stairs but make it whole. Make the stairs go all the way down, and THEN add the holes to surround the entrance.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2010, 01:32:48 PM »
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Maybe you could have stairs at the bottom and top. but have the middle of the staircase broken and missing, but have hookshoot points on the upper stairs so that you can hookshot across the gap - obviously that would be playing with the perspective, since it would still be hooking up, but treating it as if it was on the one plain, but it might be passable enough to 'fudge it' in the eyes of the player.   
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2010, 01:52:28 AM »
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I already talked to MaJoRa about this. I said holes surrounding the stairs with a hookshot post on the other end.

I figured that's what everyone was trying to get at.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2010, 03:55:51 AM »
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Problem with having a full bridge and then all the sudden *holes* is that it looks really tacky and takes away from the atmosphere. Having a shattered bridge is fine, but the issue with what's there currently is that there's no visible *beginning* to the bridge. It seems awkward.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2010, 04:03:40 AM »
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I meant a shattered bridge too.

And yeah, there needs to be a start.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2010, 11:08:14 AM »
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Right, so I have gone over this and taken some of your advice into account. I have redone the bridge area for the sacred forest meadow, hopefully it is an improvement from the programmers perspective. Please note I plan on adding some form of shadow below the overhang to give the illusion of height, so it will not look as bad as this later, you can see here:



Also, as for the next area you will be seeing, I am currently over half way through the Castle Courtyard, so that will be within the next day or so. It has been a while since I have personally posted anything here, but I like to have some news when I do post.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2010, 12:11:10 PM »
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I think something like that works - since Link is already walking up the bottom half of the stairs, I think players would take the idea of the hookshot travelling 'up' at the same angle as Link is ascending easier (if that makes since).  I'd move the hookshot stump down a tile though, so that it is at the edge of the stairs, as I think that would help maintain the illusion a bit more.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2010, 06:30:09 PM »
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Right, so I have gone over this and taken some of your advice into account. I have redone the bridge area for the sacred forest meadow, hopefully it is an improvement from the programmers perspective.
Nope it actually brings in more complexity. You should keep in mind that it are two levels. When recreating OOT Link would be able to walk under the upper part of the bridge without being bothered by the solid fences, just like the bridges below. And with the lower part of the bridge you need to make it so that you can walk up the bridge only when moving with a negative Y direction and when you are on the bridge you can move in any direction. And when you walk over to the gap that you fall in and you have to walk around to get up there.

Visually it might look more believable now, but programming it is still a hell. Especially because it contains some rather complex objects.


PS: At the top part, when you look at the edge of the treeline, you'll see some flowers trapped under the treeroots. Having flowers near the trees is nice but having them trapped under the roots looks weird.
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #78 on: September 24, 2010, 12:16:51 AM »
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Here's my go at it, though I am in no way a graphics person:


Add a shadow.  If Link is in that area and he shoots the hookshot/longshot, it cannot go over the bridge.
Or if Link.y < obj_bridge.y + 32(throwing a random number out there)
then you would set the hookshot at a lower depth than the bridge.

Maybe I'm just nuts :/
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 12:18:52 AM by Theforeshadower »
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Re: OOT2D Map Project
« Reply #79 on: September 24, 2010, 02:05:48 AM »
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Why not just make it that Link can't walk under the stairs at all - maybe add a pillar on the right side as well and just have it that Link is blocked from walking under.  It could be that the sides of the stairs are still there blocking you, but the middle has fallen out.  Then you don't have to worry about the different layers and Link being able to walk under etc.
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