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Author Topic: Revamping ZFGC  (Read 22912 times)

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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2011, 11:36:29 am »
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Why not pick up on that idea of a combined zfgc youtube account? I find it a wonderfull idea.
Low level of effort required to try out. Large audiance to appeal to. Why not?

There will be the occasional shitty video, sure. But people interested in zelda fangames who see that most fangames are clustered on one forum will likely come and visit. More so then when I (or someone else) mentions zfgc in a video or in a comment on some other forum.
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Mamoruanime

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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2011, 11:44:43 am »
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Why not pick up on that idea of a combined zfgc youtube account? I find it a wonderfull idea.
Low level of effort required to try out. Large audiance to appeal to. Why not?

There will be the occasional shitty video, sure. But people interested in zelda fangames who see that most fangames are clustered on one forum will likely come and visit. More so then when I (or someone else) mentions zfgc in a video or in a comment on some other forum.

Wouldn't work.

It'd get about as repetitive as the PotM. :x Not to sound like a pessimist or anything, but it's true.
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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 11:48:53 am »
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The PotM had plenty of activity each month. The only reasons it isn't continued right now is because I got a new girlfriend last year (= less free time), nobody stepped up to continue on, 4Sword wanted to change it once again.
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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2011, 12:33:25 pm »
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i wasn't talking about spaming DA! i was talking about going to zelda fans on DA and seeing if they want to join but never mind that. (it don't matter). How about we do another big project like OoT2d but since the 3d is coming june 7 theres no point in oot why not a Twilight Princess 2D project? do u think that would spark interest?
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2011, 12:39:08 pm »
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The PotM had plenty of activity each month. The only reasons it isn't continued right now is because I got a new girlfriend last year (= less free time), nobody stepped up to continue on, 4Sword wanted to change it once again.

Yeah but I mean it was the same project over and over again due to lack of new things to feature :P We'd basically put up videos of the same thing each week...
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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2011, 12:41:25 pm »
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Who says we have to upload video's each week, or each month for that matter? Just upload if there is something you would normally create a video for.
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Mamoruanime

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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2011, 12:43:58 pm »
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Who says we have to upload video's each week, or each month for that matter? Just upload if there is something you would normally create a video for.

Which would ultimately be a new project, and or competition promo... For something like that to be successful, we'd need things like reviews and such and have regular activity on it. Ultimately it's a lot more work than anyone here would realistically keep up on :P It'd fizzle after a month.

I don't think it's a bad idea; I just doubt anyone here would actually do it and keep it up.

Even playing devils advocate and thinking "I'd do it because it's a great idea", I realize that I would simply stop within a few weeks. Reason being I have other things that I feel are more important. IP related things to me take precedence over fangaming, and even ZFGC as a whole :p The hour it would take me to record a video reviewing something I could be spending working on something else more fulfilling :\

Hate to say it, ZFGC is a one-trick-pony. We've all witnessed the community grow around a singular project twice over. Once with OoT2d (abandonware) and then again with Shadowgazer (abandonware). The in-betweens have never been good. The forum only works when there's a big project for people to gawk at.

As bad as it may sound; fangaming is more of an introductory/hobby thing... Most people who started developing here have moved on to their own IP's. It's a lot more satisfying to make something that's truly your own. It's because of this that I agree with Porkchop on just removing "Zelda" from the equation. Frankly, Zelda has kinda sucked for the past 10 years anyway.

In my completely honest opinion, ZFGC should be done. It's the community that people pine for in these threads, not the subject of the community. We're limiting ourselves by being "Zelda Fan Game Central", and the community just doesn't exist anymore. Make something new. Make something different. Whatever community is still here will obviously be there too, so what's the difference. Right now it's just silly how this forum lingers and lingers when it could just die and have something better come out of it's remains.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 12:54:25 pm by Mamoruアニメ »
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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2011, 01:24:22 pm »
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Who says we have to upload video's each week, or each month for that matter? Just upload if there is something you would normally create a video for.

The laws of Youtube do.
To be a partner of Youtube, you have to actively upload videos and maintain a good amount of subscribers. It's also the laws of common sense. If we're never uploading videos (aka whenever we basically feel like it), we won't attract any audience. We'd barely hit 100 views on Youtube either unless it was something like Ocarina of Time 2D which gets picked up by a gaming news site. Even then, we'd get about 100k views max, and that would just be on one really interesting thing, not the whole lot.

For example, (I'm not one to boast myself, so don't take it as that), I uploaded a video of me playing Alien Swarm on a Pallet Town map I made. It was simply that, a test. Wasn't planning on releasing it, never am. Wasn't even closed to finish and had nothing in it. It was number 1 on Reddit for a while and got featured on Destructoid (alongside another Alien Swarm video), and as of now it has 158,077 views. 85% of those views came back from June/July when it got featured. This was nothing but luck and timing. I released the video about a day or two after Alien Swarm came out, so Reddit and Destructoid picked it up as "one of the first maps made for Alien Swarm". I hadn't uploaded that video with the intention of getting any views, I just wanted to show it off to some people I knew. I got lucky and got featured on a game news site because it was at the right time (unintentionally).

My point is, it's easier said than done. You can go and upload a video reviewing some random Zelda Fan Game that nobody's ever heard of, but you're not going to get anywhere. Nobody's searching for "Zelda Fan Games" on Youtube, or anything remotely similar. If you look up Zelda Fan Game on Youtube, you'll find most of them have 500 views tops, some have 1,000, some even have 40,000, but these have been from over the past 3+ years, and the ones with a lot of views have the named "OOT2D", notice a pattern? Hell, the few Shadowgazer videos I've seen have at least 40k average, but it's three videos. Even that didn't draw much attention to ZFGC though. We never constantly had people signing up to go "HEY WHEN DOES SHADOWGAZER RELEASE?" "IS IT COMING OUT ON DS?", which is a sign that a 'fan' game is drawing.

I'm not saying Lunar's idea is a bad one, infact, I think it's a great one, but Zelda doesn't draw as much as say... Pokemon. That's why a place like Pokecommunity is alive and still huge with it's ROM hacks and fan games, where as some place like this is dying and is barely active. There's nothing, and besides that, nobody's interested. Bolded for importance.

This Youtube thing is something that's going to need planning and time, not something we can jump into right away. We need content and activity before we can even think of starting this, and I don't mean what we have now with some random small projects and the few people posting like we do. We need ACTIVITY and CONTENT. Actual projects, a few big ones and lots of small ones. We need activity to the point where you wake up, or come home and you have to wade through dozens and dozens of posts, and before you even finish there's new posts. That's what you call an active community, not a few more people walking in here and saying "Hi, I like this game."

This brings to me my point of why ZFGC needs to change in a lot of aspects, not just bringing in a bit more activity. People see this place and think it's just a board for old friends to hang around in and talk, they get intimidated. Staff is pretty much made up of active members who are all friends (not that a staff shouldn't be friends), everyone posting pretty much has 1k+ posts on average and the usual "this place isn't very active". It's also filled with a lot of dead mess (topics).

Hate to say it, ZFGC is a one-trick-pony. We've all witnessed the community grow around a singular project twice over. Once with OoT2d (abandonware) and then again with Shadowgazer (abandonware). The in-betweens have never been good. The forum only works when there's a big project for people to gawk at.

As bad as it may sound; fangaming is more of an introductory/hobby thing... Most people who started developing here have moved on to their own IP's. It's a lot more satisfying to make something that's truly your own. It's because of this that I agree with Porkchop on just removing "Zelda" from the equation. Frankly, Zelda has kinda sucked for the past 10 years anyway.

In my completely honest opinion, ZFGC should be done. It's the community that people pine for in these threads, not the subject of the community. We're limiting ourselves by being "Zelda Fan Game Central", and the community just doesn't exist anymore. Make something new. Make something different. Whatever community is still here will obviously be there too, so what's the difference. Right now it's just silly how this forum lingers and lingers when it could just die and have something better come out of it's remains.

This this this this this this this. This so much.

Mammy and I have had our differences, but I've never agreed with him so much on something.

This is also why I mentioned the "merge" with GDU a second time. I actually talked to Wally again after I mentioned it, and he said he wasn't really interested in doing a merge, he said he's got some of his own plans for GDU and I can't wait to see how they play out, and I'll be there to help him if he needs it.

HOWEVER, I still think that merge is a great idea, not for ZFGC or for GDU, but for the community. ZFGC doesn't revolve around fan games or even game development that much anymore, and hasn't for a long time.. 95% of the active people here are here for the community. There's absolutely no doubting that.

Now that I'm putting more thought into, no, not a merge. A migration of sorts however would be nice. Head over to GDU, check it out, maybe even sign up and start posting there. That's what it's there for, game development as a whole, and for a community. Wally's hopes (at least to my knowledge!) is for GDU to be what ZFGC used to be, community and development wise. A nice community where games are being made.

He's not trying to be some !@#$% who wants to steal the community away from this place and act like top gun. He wants to see his site boom into a place full of activity and game development. He's not ruling with an iron fist, infact, he's pretty lax on everything. It's not the most active place in the world, but it's getting there slowly.

This was our intentions with that whole NuZFGC deal back in '09. It wasn't to try and steal this place away, it was nothing but good intentions of getting this place up and running and to it's fullest again. To make it a new place, but also a recognizable home for everything it used to be.

In end... what's there to lose? Your staff position or post count?

Anyway, time for bed, please don't let this be a thread full of drama and personal vendettas when I wake up.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 01:40:05 pm by Porkchop »
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Dantztron 3030

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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2011, 04:04:55 pm »
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Porkchop is right.

Making ZFGC active isn't something we can just "do." We're going to have to do something very big that will attract a lot of attention, and until someone can pick up the torch and do it, we won't get very many new members or get a lot of exposure. I think the community project is a great idea, but I do see a problem of the older members on this forum simply having moved onto other things. Most of the newer members, I think, do not have the talent or organizational skills in order to head up something that huge.

I had a similar experience with my friend Boris' fake LARP videos. He made them for months until one day, his Minecraft LARP got picked up by Kotaku and skyrocketed to over 200k views. So even if we DO have something cool, it's still going to take a lot of luck for it to even get attention.

I remember a few years back I had the idea of broadening ZFGC into a general creative community. However, the problem with this is that most of our current userbase is in game design. And then there's also the issue of plenty of creative communities already existing around the internet that work perfectly fine, so why should people come to this one?

I'm running out of steam. Someone else figure this out.
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well i dont have that system and it is very hard to care about everything when you are single
Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2011, 04:21:12 pm »
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Quote
Hate to say it, ZFGC is a one-trick-pony. We've all witnessed the community grow around a singular project twice over. Once with OoT2d (abandonware) and then again with Shadowgazer (abandonware). The in-betweens have never been good. The forum only works when there's a big project for people to gawk at.

As bad as it may sound; fangaming is more of an introductory/hobby thing... Most people who started developing here have moved on to their own IP's. It's a lot more satisfying to make something that's truly your own. It's because of this that I agree with Porkchop on just removing "Zelda" from the equation. Frankly, Zelda has kinda sucked for the past 10 years anyway.

In my completely honest opinion, ZFGC should be done. It's the community that people pine for in these threads, not the subject of the community. We're limiting ourselves by being "Zelda Fan Game Central", and the community just doesn't exist anymore. Make something new. Make something different. Whatever community is still here will obviously be there too, so what's the difference. Right now it's just silly how this forum lingers and lingers when it could just die and have something better come out of it's remains.

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker did not suck D:

Anyway, I agree with this.  If we promote and center around a large project, it needs to be managed properly so as to not abandon it.  I.e. we have one guy managing the whole project?  No, what happens if that guy has to quit?  There needs to be co-management as well.

I do also agree with the whole community thing, but we should be careful about how we go about that;  We don't want a repeat of Gamers Advanced.
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Lunar

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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2011, 05:00:45 pm »
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I think it's a great one, but Zelda doesn't draw as much as say... Pokemon. That's why a place like Pokecommunity is alive and still huge with it's ROM hacks and fan games,

I agree, which is why I suggest we widen our scope by changing our name to something along the lines of Nintendo Fan Game Central. We'd  be including all Nintendo IPs: Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby Donkey Kong, the whole package. The combined fanbase for all those games (and fan games) adds up to a lot more than just the limited Zelda games that we've set for ourselves.

In end... what's there to lose? Your staff position or post count?

It would seem so. This is about what is best for the future of the forum, there is no room for ego anymore. A staff member with no forum to moderate, might as well not be a moderator at all.

A good place to start, as has been suggested, is to wipe the forums, and keep all the old content in an archive somewhere, so it isn't lost. This will be the start of a new era for ZFGC, and while we want to build on the success of years previous, we also want a fresh start, with fresh ideas and content. The easiest way to achieve this, is a wipe.
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sup
Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2011, 05:19:51 pm »
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I believe you are getting a little ahead of yourself there.
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Lunar

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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2011, 05:21:02 pm »
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I believe you are getting a little ahead of yourself there.

In what way?
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sup
Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2011, 05:28:35 pm »
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The "we" and "this will be a whole new era" parts. No offense meant though.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 05:30:56 pm by Martijn dh »
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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2011, 05:46:08 pm »
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Nobody liked my idea of local moderation of boards as a way to possibly trim down global moderation, which would instead put the role of the local moderator at the level where they'd be helping to improve the board they were in. Although to some degree we have needed global moderators more because life gets busy and people who have been here a while still cause problems which can be weird. Wiping and then linking back to some archive wouldn't be helpful if the archive is not sorted and sifted through for its content.

Our biggest market in terms of a potential userbase are those who use Game Maker and those who like Nintendo games. As I've expressed before I don't think that a break from Zelda would work in that we'd still have predominantly Zelda games here. This is why I separated the Coding boards into Zelda and Other in some respects, if there would to be the growth of something new from Other which it was deemed was worthy of a board of its own, it would be given that. But for that to happen we'd have to have users working on that stuff rather than just hoping for someone else who is into that stuff to come here onto a ZFGC forum that doesn't look like it is about that stuff. And really, an outsider who would come here and possibly see that other stuff would only likely stay here if that other stuff here was good and not second-rate compared to something elsewhere.
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Lunar

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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2011, 09:09:05 pm »
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The "we" and "this will be a whole new era" parts. No offense meant though.

Not sure what you mean by the "we" part.. I'm just referring to the community as a whole.

As far as a whole new era, I think that's what "we" need. A revolution, to stir up interest and ambition. I'm only suggesting one method, feel free to come up with your own, if you support change of some kind.

If we just continue down the same path we are on, we're heading towards inevitable death. I've literally grown up on this forum. When I was in my early teens, this was my home. I had no friends in real life, and the people I've met here have made a real, profound impact on my life, and who I am. I don't want to see something that impacted me in such a way just slowly die because nobody wants to take the time or effort and give it another shot at life.

I'm willing to commit and volunteer my time to improve my forum, our forum, in any way that I can.
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sup
Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2011, 09:15:39 pm »
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I believe you are getting a little ahead of yourself there.
The "we" and "this will be a whole new era" parts. No offense meant though.

Gee, I wonder WHY things like this will never work. You have such little doubt in this community that it's not even funny. You've been here since '09, and unless you're an old member who I do not recognize, you know absolutely nothing of what ZFGC's been through, which is the exact same thing, over and over again for the past 7 or so years.

Nobody liked my idea of local moderation of boards as a way to possibly trim down global moderation

Well what does that tell you then? Nobody liked the idea, it's time to move on and try something NEW. Not to sound like a DICK, but it's the truth. Pushing the same idea over and over that nobody likes isn't going to just automatically make them like it, it's going to make them sick of the idea and ignore it even more.

Wiping and then linking back to some archive wouldn't be helpful if the archive is not sorted and sifted through for its content.

Well see, this again, is doubting the abilities of others. This is called effort and putting trust in those who want to put the effort into doing things like this. If the archive doesn't work? Then scrap it. This is what being new is about, not holding onto old things forever. My NES died, I put it away for a while in hopes of it working again, which it didn't, so I got rid of it. What did I do? Well I downloaded ROMs, but I'd buy a new one in reality.

Our biggest market in terms of a potential userbase are those who use Game Maker and those who like Nintendo games. As I've expressed before I don't think that a break from Zelda would work in that we'd still have predominantly Zelda games here.

We predominantly have Zelda games because... this may come as a shock to you, this is a ZELDA forum. People have brought them here, or have come here interested in Zelda and game design and decided to start another walking demo. It was the main focus. It hasn't done much or gotten us anywhere. No one but US are interested in Zelda fan games, and even that interest is dying or is dead within most already. You don't seem to see that.

This is why I separated the Coding boards into Zelda and Other in some respects, if there would to be the growth of something new from Other which it was deemed was worthy of a board of its own, it would be given that. But for that to happen we'd have to have users working on that stuff rather than just hoping for someone else who is into that stuff to come here onto a ZFGC forum that doesn't look like it is about that stuff. And really, an outsider who would come here and possibly see that other stuff would only likely stay here if that other stuff here was good and not second-rate compared to something elsewhere.

Okay... aaaand... this is the whole point to approaching something new? This has been tried time and time again, and we've waited years for some new demographic, it hasn't worked and we've barely brought in our own demographics, a few new members is nothing noteworthy.

I really do think you're missing the entire point of this, and maybe you're avoiding it on purpose, I don't know. There's absolutely nothing to lose at the point, besides, like I said, a staff position and a post count. I see no point in clinging to something and trying something new when there's nothing at loss here. A number of people agree this place is in need of change, even a drastic one. It isn't about you, or how YOU want this thing to go. Sometimes (if not always), the community should go first before any admins or staff do. If you don't listen to your audience, you're not getting anywhere. Why do you think a company like Valve does so well on it's own? It listens to it's community and it's a lesson I've learned from my favorite game developer.
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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2011, 09:24:21 pm »
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!@#$% I lost my entire post, god dammit.

4Sword Save:
PLEASE:

1) DO NOT Wage war against this website.
2) Play nice and enjoy.. it's how your community will be built up..

I for one encourage innovation.. you can't change a website.. and Chris I know you just sent me a message on MSN, while I agree with what your saying in the context to ZFGC itself, if you want something new, you got to make it.. you can't take it out of what exists already. That just doesn't work most of the time. <3



PLEASE BE ADVISED -- AS USUAL I DID NOT READ THE ENTIRE THREAD TOO MANY LONG POSTS.

(4sword that wasn't my entire post, but thanks :P)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 10:11:43 pm by Vash »
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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2011, 09:59:31 pm »
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I didn't mean that nobody liked my idea of local moderation in the sense that it had not become popular, but that when I posted the idea in this topic that it got no reply. If people think the global moderation should be trimmed down and that the resource and development boards should improve local moderation could be a solution to that; especially also in that local moderators of resource boards would be expected to sort through old topics or that they would be expected to help maintain order in the board.

I put trust in others all the time, why do you think that I gave primary leadership of the GM Minish Cap Engine to Niek and at one point leadership of the Project of the Month to Martijn dh? At one point I think I also had given you a Site Staff position but I do not remember you doing anything too substantial with that. Regarding the Zelda focus, I am not dumb in that I know this is a Zelda place but I have been against the idea of making this place too general in that it still would continue to be a Zelda place. How I see an expansion of focus beyond Zelda is to grow things from Other that work and once they are stable enough to give them their own forum; e.g., if there got to be good enough Pokemon projects, we could have a Pokemon Projects board. Even if it started small, if what was initially there was pretty good we could then appeal for others to come here to contribute to that stuff.
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Re: Revamping ZFGC
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2011, 03:26:59 am »
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I remember a few years back I had the idea of broadening ZFGC into a general creative community. However, the problem with this is that most of our current userbase is in game design. And then there's also the issue of plenty of creative communities already existing around the internet that work perfectly fine, so why should people come to this one?

I'm running out of steam. Someone else figure this out.

omg I love the creative idea part, I beleive that instead of focusing on any creative aspect, making a forum of GAMEDESIGN might work, since we don't have to teach coding or worrying about people actually making a progress on their game, we will just focus on paper work, designing enemies,levels, etc.. lol, that would be sweet.
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