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Author Topic: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm  (Read 23196 times)

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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #140 on: December 02, 2011, 07:20:01 pm »
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Yeah, the plot... I was thinking that if we do change it, it probably won't be a big change, because that isn't really needed. There was a good, solid story that lots of people before us agreed on, I think. Obviously, we'll be adding details and stuff, and we might change some parts, but until we have a meeting and discuss what we'll do, in what order, decide when to address the plot, and then discuss it, let's assume the master sword is the item of the last dungeon.

Which will make the sword order
First Sword > Middle Sword (optional?) > Master Sword

Notes: This doesn't say that because the master sword isn't optional, you HAVE to use it, we could do like 3D games where you can choose what sword to equip and use a less powerful one if you like. In fact, I support that. I also, however, support optional items, especially upgrades.
SO, what do you guys think about the second sword, optional or not? If so, how easy to obtain will it be? I think it'd be best if it was optional, but fairly easy to acquire (by which I mean, obvious how to acquire it, unlike things like the great spin attack (WW and MC)).

Since we're bringing up optional items, what is your stance on them in general?
I support them, especially as upgrades, such as the Magic Boomerang (control its path), I really think we should have that it here.
Also, although I don't think they'd go so well as totally NEW items, I liked when MC upgraded, by catching butterflies, your swimming and digging speed, and when they sped up the split meter and stuff. I'd like little upgrades like that, where you could get the long shot, or swim faster, shoot the bow further and/or faster. Your feelings on each of those, and your ideas?

Besides upgrades, I would totally love it if there was either a long or difficult side quest to gain a totally new item. My favourites for this optional item as the Pegasus Boots, and Roc's Cape.
I also think the magic powder should be avaliable in an easier side quest, and come in handy sometimes, but never be necessary or do anything really serious. But things like turning buzz blobs into chukemen, transforming an occasional cucco, stunning enemies, whatever.

Finally, as far as equipment goes, I think it can basically be broken down into sword, shield, tunic, boots, and etc, which includes odd stuff like power bracelets and flippers. Personally, I think the only ones applicable here are the sword, shield, and etc categories. Sword I already mentioned, but how do you feel about shields?
Personally, I'd opt for only one upgrade - mirror shield, MC style. Or maybe that backlash shield that was brought up way, waaaay long ago.
And for the etc category, we already have flippers, and I can't think of anything else that would be useful.

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King Tetiro

Leader of Phoenix Heart
Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #141 on: December 06, 2011, 12:12:56 pm »
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Ok this topic has gotten quite messy. So I wanna know. Which items ARE in the game?
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #142 on: December 06, 2011, 02:21:14 pm »
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Aah, yeah, I can see this being a bit hard to follow, as it's basically a long list of various brainstorms followed by discussion of said brainstorms, and often not a clear decision either way, haha. All the main items actually are finalised, though. There's a list of some of them in specifics four or so posts from the bottom of page eight, and a list of proposed minor pickup items on this page that everybody seems to agree with.
The main items, though, basically follow as this: (Not counting the sword), thief bracers, boomerang, Hookshot, flippers, magnetic gloves, bow and arrows, bomb cannon, fire and ice arrows, shadow cloak. And the four cogs can be equipped to the thief bracers to be used as well.
All these items should be updated in the current design information page shortly, if they aren't already, I didn't think to look.

Anyway, it's been a few days without comment.

On additional thing I'd like to bring up, besides the things I mentioned in the last post (which I'll ask again, we're still working in this topic, team!), is about the way the shield should work.
There are basically three ways the shield has worked in the past:

ALTTP style, it's always equipped and blocks automatically if you aren't doing anything else.
OOX/MC style, you can equip the shield same as any other item.
3D style, the shield has its own button, so you can always use it, unless you're doing something else. Using it would prevent you from doing something else.

Personally, I like the 3D method the best. However, I don't really want to use that many buttons in this game, as presumably the same button that would allow you to use your shield would be the button to roll, assuming we're only using as many buttons as a GBA, which is something else we need to discuss, but...
I like the MC method better than ALTTP, because I never used my shield when I had to equip it as one of my two items, unless I had to. Mostly just on those spiky turtle guys.

So anyway, how will the shield work, folks?


Secondly, I'll go over what I asked in my last post, to reiterate and perhaps stir up a response:

Second sword- master sword, or is that one later? If not master sword, optional? If so, how difficult to obtain?
Item upgrades proposed: (we'll think about how they're obtained later)
Controlable (magic) boomerang
Swim faster
Longshot extension
Shoot arrows further/more rapidly
Shield upgrade

Optional items proposed:
Magic Powder
Pegasus Boots
Roc's Cape

If other people like optional items like these, we'll then figure out exactly what they'll do. Then later, how to obtain them. But they need ratified first.
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King Tetiro

Leader of Phoenix Heart
Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #143 on: December 06, 2011, 02:23:59 pm »
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Thanks for clearing it up for me. What's the thief bracers btw?
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #144 on: December 06, 2011, 02:39:27 pm »
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Like I mentioned, near the bottom of the eighth page (fourth or so post from the bottom), there's a pretty good list of the items, including the thief bracers. Basically, you can use them to help you pick locks, a thief ability Link's always struggled with. But the true use of the bracers is as a means to utilise the powers of the cogs, as after you equip a cog to the bracers, you can use the cog's special attack. The powers of the cogs are scattered a bit more throughout the last few pages. Basically, if you read backwards through this topic and ignore the contradictions, you'll get the items.

Also, items group, besides the points I mentioned in my above post, I read this random topic that's started discussing handbags which found its way onto the front page, and it reminded me something:

Bottles?
Can I just assume there are four, they're regular like we'd expect in every way?

And also, is there an instrument?
If so, is it for anything other than warping around? Personally, I like having a number of songs like OoT and MM, but... I think that'd just be too much at this point, with everything else we've got going on. When I imagine all the items we have so far, playing the game with them, and then imagine also having half a dozen songs that do different things, it feels kind of messy and thrown together.

However, I do think we should have a warping system. If this is tied to an instrument, great, if you can only access it via specific points, great.
It seems most versatile and useful to me, if we have owl statues can you can warp to each other from, but also an instrument that you get later, once you've visited all the owl statues, that allows you to warp to any of them from anywhere.
It would also be neat if once you obtained said item, you could warp to one or two owl statues that you couldn't previously access, which allowed you to solve some puzzle or access a secret bonus location.

But yeah, just because I always post really long stuff, don't forget to read my last post, we need decisions on what I brought up there, too!
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Design team!: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #145 on: December 18, 2011, 08:52:22 am »
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Design team! It's been seventeen days. I can only assume that the level team's assassin was competent after all.
So here's my logic. There are still item matters to be decided. One person's decision is better than no decision, so while I really want you guys to input opinions and ideas, if nobody does within the month, these decisions will be final. They aren't really huge matters, anyway.


Second sword- optional to obtain. It will take some effort in puzzle solving (finding requisite materials, or the blacksmith or something) but will be fairly obvious. It's power level will be between the first sword and the master sword, and it will be available to obtain after the Zara dungeon.

Item upgrades: (we'll think about how they're obtained later)
Controlable (magic) boomerang
Swim faster
Longshot extension
Shoot arrows further/more rapidly
Shield upgrade

Optional items:
Magic Powder
Pegasus Boots
Roc's Cape

Bottles - four, which behave just like they go in every zelda game.

Warping instrument - optional, but easy to obtain, found in a cave or someplace. Playing the instrument allows you to warp to specific places on the map, as long as you've already been there, like the wind crests in MC.

I think it'd be cool if the instrument were percussion, like a bell, triangle, cymbal, or those wooden ridged things you scrape with a drumstick. However, imagining Link playing them and warping isn't as cool. So perhaps a stringed instrument. It needs to be small, which lends itself to woodwinds, but flutes and ocarinas have already been done...
Therefore, I'm deciding to call it the wind fiddle.


Furthermore, we already discussed this, but there should also be a logbook.
When you encounter a puzzle you can't solve, you write it in the logbook, along with a couple specifics, such as location and puzzle type. You also record chests you open and find more rupees than you can carry, you put them back and write down the location. Therefore, the logbook will contain a map.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 08:56:45 am by Donotfeedthemax »
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #146 on: December 18, 2011, 06:37:14 pm »
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If people stop replying, send out a mass PM to the division.  It seems to be the only way to grab their attention.  If that fails, shoot one of the managers a message and we'll get on it :)
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i love big weenies and i cannot lie

thestig

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #147 on: December 19, 2011, 01:43:36 pm »

Second sword- optional to obtain. It will take some effort in puzzle solving (finding requisite materials, or the blacksmith or something) but will be fairly obvious. It's power level will be between the first sword and the master sword, and it will be available to obtain after the Zara dungeon.
As I recall from our discussions, we were both talking in agreement to an idea along the lines of this. I agree with the optional part, but as you've mentioned, we're going to discuss how they're obtained later. So the optional part, +1.

Quote
Item upgrades: (we'll think about how they're obtained later)
Controlable (magic) boomerang
Swim faster
Longshot extension
Shoot arrows further/more rapidly
Shield upgrade

Optional items:
Magic Powder
Pegasus Boots
Sorry to cut the quotebox off here, but I wanted to throw in a functionality idea for the pegasus boots. This actually comes from BS Zelda: Ancient Stone Tablets. You can move in 4 directions while running with the boots. If you want a video displaying this, I can go fetch one if you like.

Quote
Roc's Cape
It would be cool if the player could hold 'A'(or the action button) to perform a "slam" move with their sword? Silly idea, but this would be a neat sword move upgrade.

Quote
Bottles - four, which behave just like they go in every zelda game.

Warping instrument - optional, but easy to obtain, found in a cave or someplace. Playing the instrument allows you to warp to specific places on the map, as long as you've already been there, like the wind crests in MC.

I think it'd be cool if the instrument were percussion, like a bell, triangle, cymbal, or those wooden ridged things you scrape with a drumstick. However, imagining Link playing them and warping isn't as cool. So perhaps a stringed instrument. It needs to be small, which lends itself to woodwinds, but flutes and ocarinas have already been done...
Therefore, I'm deciding to call it the wind fiddle.
Wind Fiddle... I like it!

Quote
Furthermore, we already discussed this, but there should also be a logbook.
When you encounter a puzzle you can't solve, you write it in the logbook, along with a couple specifics, such as location and puzzle type. You also record chests you open and find more rupees than you can carry, you put them back and write down the location. Therefore, the logbook will contain a map.
How would one go writing the entry in the logbook? Would this be a pre-scripted event so as long as the player activates it properly? I like the idea, but it would be cool if you could elaborate here.
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #148 on: December 19, 2011, 05:56:27 pm »
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Pegasus boots, I thought the limitation in direction was an important limitation that kept the boots from being too powerful, as you're kinda invincible until you either run into something you can't hurt, or get hit from the wrong angle. It might be able to work, but it seems like it'd be something that'd need to be tested, to me.

As for the sword slam move, we'll consider it when we're discussing that aspect of the sword. After the items are finished off and we have a meeting, we're going into much more basic stuff, which will be essential for the programmers, probably.

As for the logbook, by you write it, I meant Link writes it, by which I meant, it appears in the logbook. So yeah, per scripted event.
Also, this item will be one of the first to be abandoned if the programmers go on strike or something, because it is probably a lot of work for a small convenience that's never been in a zelda game before. In fact, although I like it, I am a bit worried it might make things too easy. But of course, it won't solve the puzzle, just remind you where it is, and what's involved...
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thestig

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #149 on: December 19, 2011, 08:09:39 pm »
Pegasus boots, I thought the limitation in direction was an important limitation that kept the boots from being too powerful, as you're kinda invincible until you either run into something you can't hurt, or get hit from the wrong angle. It might be able to work, but it seems like it'd be something that'd need to be tested, to me.
@Needing to be tested: Yeah, sure! I see where you're making your point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=m19W6o9U3KM#t=4s This is the video I was referring to, by the way. I believe Nintendo only made this change in this game due to the time-constraints, so your point would be justified even still.

Quote
As for the sword slam move, we'll consider it when we're discussing that aspect of the sword. After the items are finished off and we have a meeting, we're going into much more basic stuff, which will be essential for the programmers, probably.
Yes sir.
Quote
As for the logbook, by you write it, I meant Link writes it, by which I meant, it appears in the logbook. So yeah, per scripted event.
Also, this item will be one of the first to be abandoned if the programmers go on strike or something, because it is probably a lot of work for a small convenience that's never been in a zelda game before. In fact, although I like it, I am a bit worried it might make things too easy. But of course, it won't solve the puzzle, just remind you where it is, and what's involved...
Hahahaa. Programmers go on strike. I am going to speak for both me and Steve(MG-Zero), we don't throw away good ideas.. if something is difficult to do, we'll find a solution to make it work one way or another. ;)
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #150 on: December 19, 2011, 08:28:52 pm »
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Alright, glad to hear about the tenacity towards the logbook. But still, it would take a bit of time to do, as well as lots of effort and planning for a minor convenience, which might even end up making the game too easy! Well, I dunno. This is a decision I don't really want to make by myself, which is why we have a team.

As for the Pegasus boots, I do like how they worked in the video. I also think they'd be especially helpful just because of the time constraints on the BS, but seeing as they'd be a secret, optional item anyway, I guess it could work out fine without causing an imbalance in the game.
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thestig

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #151 on: December 19, 2011, 08:31:48 pm »
Alright, glad to hear about the tenacity towards the logbook. But still, it would take a bit of time to do, as well as lots of effort and planning for a minor convenience, which might even end up making the game too easy! Well, I dunno. This is a decision I don't really want to make by myself, which is why we have a team.
I'm fairly confident we can engineer something that could make this an easier process.. just by how I had the psuedo code down on my notebook. (I was just forecasting how this could be done, which would be through a database tracking logbook entries and various triggers that'll fire up the proper events needed to make this all execute together)

It may not be easy, but we can certainly make the process easier. As for the boots, that's great to hear!
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #152 on: January 10, 2012, 05:39:34 pm »
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Yeah, I know this topic was kinda dead...

But, I want to discuss the optional items a little bit.

Now that we've basically decided we want sword attacks like in Twilight Princess or Minish Cap, we realise that on a 2D system, these would work best the way MC did it, where they're tied to items other than the sword.
For instance, while you're flying with the Roc's cape, if you press the sword button, you do a down thrust.

THEREFORE, we need to decide which items will affect the sword attacks.
Of the items we already have, the only idea I get is using the magnetic gloves for a Sword-a-rang attack. It'd be kinda goofy, but sweet. I'll address that elsewhere.

The items that affected sword attacks in MC were the Roc's cape and Pegasus boots, I believe. Personally, O really want the Roc's cape to be in the game, secretly, so you can do the down thrust as well as have awesome jumping abilities.

But what do you guys think about the Pegasus boots?
Personally, I think if we did them like Zelda BS and you could basically just run really fast to travel more quickly toward the end of the game, and also had it so you could learn some kinda move related to dashing. Obviously, there's just holding the sword out in front of you so you can stab things. Perhaps more?


So basically, I'm asking again, if we should have the secret items of the Roc's cape, and Pegasus boots, particularly to use them with sword attacks.
Also, any other optional items that would be sweet?
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Mirby

Drifter
Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #153 on: January 11, 2012, 06:32:07 pm »
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Hmm...

I think that we should also tie some of the sword attacks to moves. I seem to remember being able to do a sword thrust after a roll.
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #154 on: January 11, 2012, 08:54:12 pm »
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Way ahead of you, Mirby, there's a whole topic about it.
http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=38790.0

I actually mentioned specifically and did a description of the roll attack there, so I'd direct your comments to sword moves unrelated to specific items to that topic
: D

Go there and post! We need input!
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thestig

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #155 on: January 24, 2012, 06:03:46 am »
Off-topic: Alright, things regarding my personal life will be fully back in order by this weekend so I will start becoming an active participant here again. Max, I apologize for leaving you high and dry for a long period of time. Let's get some work done, yeah?
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #156 on: January 24, 2012, 08:47:43 pm »
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Hell yeah, Stig! Glad to hear everything's worked out smoothly, and again, it's totally fine that you've been busy. I've kinda taken it as a break, too... So nothing has really gotten done. You can find any progress in this and the sword moves topic, but I think we discussed everything there earlier.
So I'll go ahead and drag together a to do list.
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thestig

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #157 on: February 16, 2012, 01:46:51 pm »
@The ToDo list: has the Google Docs page been publicly released yet, or are you still working on that? I thought that was going to be our wiki, but I guess that might've died. ;p Thought I'd ask.
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #158 on: February 18, 2012, 11:11:59 am »
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Seemed appropriate to post this here somehow XD
There are some more funny Zelda video's on the guy's channel.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01v1tcbniSw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01v1tcbniSw</a>
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Still working on my Alttp-engine: http://www.zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=33701.0
Want to help out in whatever way you are talented? Send me a PM.

thestig

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #159 on: February 22, 2012, 09:02:40 am »
Seemed appropriate to post this here somehow XD
There are some more funny Zelda video's on the guy's channel.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01v1tcbniSw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01v1tcbniSw</a>
Ahaha!! This would be an awesome easter egg
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