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Author Topic: Karma System  (Read 2389 times)

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Karma System
« on: March 25, 2012, 09:41:41 pm »
  • Minalien
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In considering methods to improve user recognition, I thought it might be nice to bring back the Karma system. This system will allow users to give Positive and Negative karma to users based on their actions, and can be a great way for users to be recognized for their actions - and recognition is a great motivation for improvement.

In keeping with our transparent decision-making, I want the community's input on this - do you feel that a Karma system would benefit the community, and provide recognition for members who put effort into the community?
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Starforsaken101

Wake the Beast
Re: Karma System
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2012, 09:48:35 pm »
  • www.mouffers.com
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I think this is a good idea to let some users get recognition for what they do. I feel like this would be a great chance to encourage users to be positive and help out throughout the community.
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Re: Karma System
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2012, 10:25:07 pm »
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I think it's a good idea, depending on how it works. I wasn't around when it was implemented to begin with, and I don't know how the original functioned, if it functioned at all. I do, however think it would be an interesting thing to try, and it would probably improve behavior, as long as it's handled well. However, depending on how it works, say people vote up or down on a post or something, then it might get out of hand on the more controversial topics. On the side, I think it's at least worth a shot, and it sounds like fun.
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Re: Karma System
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2012, 10:30:20 pm »
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I think karma would be nice.  However, I think it shouldn't be called karma.  At its current state, ZFGC wouldn't have this problem but if it re-grew to what it used to be, it could have this:
-member votes down another member because they said X game is better than X game
-member votes down another member for having another opinion that first member doesn't like(even though nothing is wrong with it)
-member votes down specific person due to grudge
-member votes down just because they don't have the maturity to understand constructive criticism

You could also throw in other instances for down-voting and up-voting abuse.  As I said, we wouldn't have that problem now but could have it in the future.

Maybe a system should be made similar to tSR's reputation system.  You cannot just +1/-1 on a post.  You have to either click the rep number or go to the member's profile, click "Rate User", then similar to a forum post, post a reason why you are rating them the way you are.  Everything is made public, therefore, abuse could be found more easily, whether it is +1 abuse or -1 abuse.

Just my thoughts.  Would love to see some kind of system though.
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  • Super Fan Gamers!
Re: Karma System
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2012, 10:37:49 pm »
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Perhaps building a system that had some math built into it.. the amount of positive or negative votes you have controls the amount of positive or negative votes you can distribute - this would balance out spam/trolling people with negative votes.

<insert maths>
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Jeod

Team Dekunutz, Doubleteam
Re: Karma System
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2012, 10:39:20 pm »
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Or just don't allow negative votes.
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Re: Karma System
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2012, 10:41:16 pm »
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I think disallowing negative votes takes away from the balance of the system.  Regulating it or leaving it absolutely open (with a trust system) allows for it to be used properly.

We used to do it just fine back in the old days.. it was pretty cool to be honest.
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Starforsaken101

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Re: Karma System
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2012, 10:41:27 pm »
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I don't think we should obliterate negative votes altogether - this is why were are here and why we have global moderators. We will monitor the process and if something becomes silly and out of hand, then we'll step in and handle the situation.

I think we should implement the system and see before we jump to conclusions. If it becomes out of hand with negativity, then we'll implement something else.
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Re: Karma System
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 10:46:23 pm »
  • Minalien
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TFS: I think Karma Abuse is the biggest reason the system didn't stay in place in the past, and I agree that it's probably the biggest concern. I definitely agree with providing a "reason" for the modification, and there's a mod for our version of SMF on the Mod DB that should tide us over until something more in-depth can be handled.

Vash: That's not a bad idea - I'll look into the Karma system and see how feasible that plan is (at this point, I'd rather not focus on major modifications to SMF given our plans for a new system in the future).

Jeod: I kind of agree that it would help, but at the same time I feel that negative votes help to deter users from negative behaviors. If there's more support for that idea over having negative votes, that should be simple to implement as well.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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thestig

Re: Karma System
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 11:06:13 pm »
Like I was telling you on Skype, there's a mod on SMF that allows for Karma Descriptions. This would help moderate the whole karma situation in a case where there is trolling going on.

Everyone's made good points so far.
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Re: Karma System
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 11:10:39 pm »
  • Minalien
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Based on feedback in this post, the Karma system has been enabled with a mandatory reason provided for both applauds and smites on a trial system.

This topic is still considered an active consideration - any issues/concerns/questions/suggestions/ideas/etc are more than welcome for community discussion.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
  • Development Blog
Re: Karma System
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 11:16:37 pm »
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I like that karma has been brought back and think that the incentive it gives for people to be helpful outweighs the concerns of people abusing the system. Anyone can abuse a system and if it becomes clear that a member is getting targeted specifically then it can be addressed then. If, for example, those who are on the same team are giving each other karma for no real reason then it defeats the purpose. The worst case scenario is that it can just be removed again if people abuse the system too much.

Otherwise that Karma Descriptions mod gm112 mentions might help out with the karma system - as long as people weren't lazy about it. Usually if you are posting in a development topic you could give praise in a post while increasing their karma, and constructive criticism which may or may not result in a decrease in karma - but all of that only if the one posting cares to give or take karma.
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Re: Karma System
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2012, 11:24:48 pm »
  • Minalien
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I implemented the mod Jon was talking about, and it seems to be working from my test runs (I've even applied the first bit of actual Rep change - Congrats, Xfixium. XD). Users should receive a message when Rep is given/taken, including where it was done from (the topic/profile), who did it, and why. Any issues with the system can be reported - admins (and once I get it emplaced, global mods) can see the karma logs inside user profiles. Deleting a "description" undoes that karma change.

What's more, users who do abuse this system can be locked out - and users who are the target of abuse can have their karma frozen for a time to prevent problems. Ultimately, I think that the community is mature enough to use the system properly, and that this could be a great improvement.

What I would like to raise as a question is - what do members feel would be a comfortable time restriction for karma changes? Currently I have it set to the default (administrators are restricted to this as well) of four hours between karma changes, but I'd like thoughts on whether that is too long or too short.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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thestig

Re: Karma System
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2012, 11:30:53 pm »
I implemented the mod Jon was talking about, and it seems to be working from my test runs (I've even applied the first bit of actual Rep change - Congrats, Xfixium. XD). Users should receive a message when Rep is given/taken, including where it was done from (the topic/profile), who did it, and why. Any issues with the system can be reported - admins (and once I get it emplaced, global mods) can see the karma logs inside user profiles. Deleting a "description" undoes that karma change.

What's more, users who do abuse this system can be locked out - and users who are the target of abuse can have their karma frozen for a time to prevent problems. Ultimately, I think that the community is mature enough to use the system properly, and that this could be a great improvement.

What I would like to raise as a question is - what do members feel would be a comfortable time restriction for karma changes? Currently I have it set to the default (administrators are restricted to this as well) of four hours between karma changes, but I'd like thoughts on whether that is too long or too short.
4 or 2 hours would be good. I'm fine with either.
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Re: Karma System
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2012, 11:34:50 pm »
  • Minalien
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As a note, Karma notifications are not enabled by default. To enable them, go into your Profile, under Notification Settings you can choose either a standard pop-up notification or a personal message.

Edit: GM is going through right now and defaulting karma notifications to Private Message.

Users should now be able to view their own Karma Logs within their profile view, by clicking "Who changed my karma" under their Avatar.

Any member who has a problem with a karma change can report either the private message notification, or can contact a global moderator or administrator.

I'm working on making sure that global moderators have the ability to delete inappropriate karma modifications right now.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 11:42:35 pm by ミン宇宙人 »
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Starforsaken101

Wake the Beast
Re: Karma System
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2012, 11:55:01 pm »
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I really like how we can state a reason as to why someone has either increased or decreased karma. Great job, gm and Min :).
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Jeod

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Re: Karma System
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2012, 12:18:45 am »
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Is there a place we can view these reasons? Are they public too? I figure public reasons would inform the community on something, like drawing attention to a project or alerting the community to a troll faster.
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"You should challenge your fates. When all else fails, you can still die fighting." ~Yune
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Re: Karma System
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2012, 12:24:58 am »
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Is there a place we can view these reasons? Are they public too? I figure public reasons would inform the community on something, like drawing attention to a project or alerting the community to a troll faster.

This actually isn't that bad of an idea... it would be nice if it was possible.

I can view it, but is that an admin only function?
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Re: Karma System
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2012, 12:29:44 am »
  • Minalien
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You should be able to view the information on your own karma, if that's what you're referring to. Go to the User CP and there should be links underneath your avatar for "Who changed my karma".

As far as viewing other users' karma logs, it's hard-coded to prevent that. I'm going through trying to grant global administrators the ability to view/manage other users' karma setup.

If there's interest in having all users' karma mod logs being available to all other users, I agree that it would be nice - I'll look go through to play with the hard-coding of this mod to remove those restrictions.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Re: Karma System
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2012, 04:06:59 am »
  • Minalien
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Modifications are complete. All users can now see other users' karma logs, and global moderators have the ability to delete inappropriate karma changes. If you receive any karma changes that are offensive or that you feel are entirely unwarranted, we will work with you to get the situation corrected.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
  • Development Blog
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