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Author Topic: [Submission] Kinstone Coins  (Read 1931 times)

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[Submission] Kinstone Coins
« on: July 03, 2012, 05:17:15 am »
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Coin Collector / Hobobum
An old man who acquired a wealth of treasures from his world travels. He became withdrawn from a society which only valued the monetary value of his collection over the stories he told of attaining them. Over the course of many years of the rich trying to ruin him so that they could take his treasures cheaply and the poor trying to steal them to sell for a quick profilt, the old man built a series of vaults in the sewers under Hyrule Town in order to safegauard all of his treasure. Eventually he came to spend most of his time outside the first vault door.

When Link first meets him, Hobobum is hostile but unassuming in his disheveled appearance and location. If Link comes back to talk to him after first finding a rare coin - he will recognize Link as a true adventurer, open up about his past, and give him a heart piece as an incentive to see if he can find any more of the coins throughout Hyrule. The more coins you get the further into the vaults Link will be able to go.

The Treasure
This could be any item found in the Zelda series not necessary for the game completion. The items though would provide some benefit as their own unique item or as an improved/varied version of an existing item. Hobobum views Link as worthy of having the items because they would help his adventure.

The Coins
Ancient kinstone coins which can be found across Hyrule in small chests, buried in certain spots, or as something that can be obtained through side-quests.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 03:35:38 pm by Diminish »
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Re: [Submission] Kinstone Coins (Replaces Secret...
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2012, 01:26:43 pm »
  • Yeah, I don't even...
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What shall happen if you collect all of the coins?
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Re: [Submission] Kinstone Coins (Replaces Secret...
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2012, 02:13:36 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything.
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I'm not sure if outright giving a heartpiece for the first coin would be the right incentive.  The player will expect something better as they bring more coins, and the heart piece is one of the pinnacles of power ups in Zelda.  I'm also not in favor of replacing the sea shell idea.  If this passes, it can be something else.

EDIT: Also, characters need to be submitted to the NPC section.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 03:07:27 pm by MG-Zero »
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i love big weenies and i cannot lie
Re: [Submission] Kinstone Coins (Replaces Secret...
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2012, 02:16:08 pm »
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A light bow could be added in as an optional upgrade reward.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 02:18:27 pm by Shadow宇宙の神 »
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Re: [Submission] Kinstone Coins
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2012, 03:23:42 pm »
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What shall happen if you collect all of the coins?

After you have collected a set amount of coins, the old man will give you access to the last vault. After he does this he will have nothing left to guard, but he will mention that Link's effort in acquiring all of the coins has inspired him to adventure around the world one last time.

I'm not sure if outright giving a heartpiece for the first coin would be the right incentive.  The player will expect something better as they bring more coins, and the heart piece is one of the pinnacles of power ups in Zelda.  I'm also not in favor of replacing the sea shell idea.  If this passes, it can be something else.

EDIT: Also, characters need to be submitted to the NPC section.

It wouldn't be a full-heart piece that increments your heart counter maximum by one, but one of those 1/4 piece amounts. It could be anything but it needs to allude to the "depth" of Hobobum's collection - that he has valuable things. In terms of replacing the sea shell idea, I think I mainly thought of it doing that because the sea shell sidequest wasn't entirely defined (unsure of what collecting the shells would reward you with, or thinking that it might be something Zora related).

About submitting the character in the NPC section, I see what you mean but the character's purpose is directly tied to the sidequest activity - the value of coins only means anything to the old man, the collection of rare items he guards is something the sidequest gives access to, etc.

A light bow could be added in as an optional upgrade reward.

It could be - in pther games in the series light bow seemed to have more importance in that it was necessary to defeat evil so I am not sure exactly how and if it would be optional under the context of this game's plot. I was thinking though that the armor that runs on rupees from Twilight Princess could be the last item though - although I didn't find it too useful in Twilight Princess, lol.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 03:29:37 pm by Diminish »
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thestig

Re: [Submission] Kinstone Coins (Replaces Secret...
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2012, 03:36:02 pm »
We already had a design in place for this anyways, there's no need to replace Secret Seashells. I have a couple gripes about this design in particular anyways.

- Coin Collector
Drop the "Hobobum".
The character's overall design contradicts itself. He's disgruntled from the rich, yet he's greedy himself? And the poor stealing from him to make a quick profit? No. That does not fit with the core theme of King of Thieves. The poor are the OPPRESSED. Building sewers in Hyrule Castle Town? How? He's not of royalty, he's a mere coin collector.

- The Treasure / Coins
This concept again doesn't work with King of Thieves. It's more or less a cheap throw-in that relies on the player's patience to really give them incentive to go out and find these "treasures or coins" for the upgrades. There's no integration again, in the core theme of King of Thieves so this would naturally give the "cheapness" feel to the design. Take Final Fantasy 7 for example and as yourself, was Yuffie or Vincent cheap throw-ins? They were certainly extras, but they were part of the story. And people loved this. Just like Cloud's final limit break, Omnislash. It's part of the story in the sense that it's used to kill Sephiroth at the end; yet it's optional to get it. (You get it anyways in the final fight, but even then my point still stands)

So to summarize, there's no integration with the common theme(except for the small hint from the character design, but the contradiction deems that part unimportant), the ideas are just thrown in there. And this idea would be rejected indefinitely anyways because we already have secret seashells(it's missing from the design doc and we're ongoing with piecing together our notes so it can land in the design doc, but we already indicated its existence). The problems I pointed out, however, are pretty significant.


About submitting the character in the NPC section, I see what you mean but the character's purpose is directly tied to the sidequest activity - the value of coins only means anything to the old man, the collection of rare items he guards is something the sidequest gives access to, etc.
Tough. Everyone's got to follow the rules. If you want a new character in the design, you have to follow our submission process. Failure to do so will result in a given submission to never have a chance for consideration in the design doc. I only gave comments because I was under the assumption you were going to actually follow the rules like everyone else. The main point of that is so we can focus our attention on specific details and for the sake of organization. Our governance structure has different managers for different aspects of the game design, so it would only be fair.

Quote
A light bow could be added in as an optional upgrade reward.

It could be - in pther games in the series light bow seemed to have more importance in that it was necessary to defeat evil so I am not sure exactly how and if it would be optional under the context of this game's plot. I was thinking though that the armor that runs on rupees from Twilight Princess could be the last item though - although I didn't find it too useful in Twilight Princess, lol.
And the fact that the item is useless in Twilight Princess is a good example of what I meant by the disconnection problem with your overall design.
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Re: [Submission] Kinstone Coins
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2012, 06:20:13 pm »
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Thank you for the feedback. In terms of the secret seashells, the impression I had from the design document and the stickied topic in this board was that they were just things you could find. From this I was initially suggesting an alternative which may make the collecting of such items more practical to the story. Had I known more details about the secret seashells I may have thought differently.

The old man isn't greedy - he hasn't hoarded items for their monetary worth, but others have tried to take items from him because the only value they see in those items is monetary. When he had a somewhat wealthy status, both the rich and poor targetted him to the point where he only found happiness in his things - so much to the extreme that he disappeared into the sewers with his collection to protect it. He is now mostly forgotten about by everyone or assumed to not have anything of value due to his disheveled appearance.

As for the rest of the stuff, I will reread the design document and try to improve my idea or scrap it altogether; if I can improve it I will then post it in each of the boards separately. If you think deleting this topic would help clean up any confusion it being here like this might be causing then please do, and sorry for not understanding the structure of the boards well enough to post in the correct ones.
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Re: [Submission] Kinstone Coins
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2012, 04:12:23 pm »
  • It's just Max.
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GM, chill, you're being mean :p

Diminish, I actually like this dude (although I don't like his name), maybe I understand where you were going with him better. He isn't a major character that's really related to the plot, and his only mechanic is to better implement a collecting stuff quest. These are really common things in Zelda games, I feel like he fits really well. He also represents 1) how the rich are generally greedy, fits with our theme, and 2) how the poor are desperate, also fits with our theme. But also gives a slight nod to the sentiment of hey, just because the poor are poor doesn't mean that stealing is moral.

I like how this guy fits into neither category, but does relate directly to Link, as an adventurer. He isn't in it for the money, like the rich and poor are.

But yeah, all this stuff is character NPC stuff, so I guess not the right board, but we've had a few topics where (for example), the boss topic is created and mentions an enemy that doesn't exist yet, like wolfos.


So anyway, about the side quest, I like it. Secret seashells hold about as much significance and medallions from OoT, why do they need to be seashells? We already have a graphic from MC :p

I also like how he built vaults in the sewers, that's kinda cool.

My only problems are... A heart piece for one coin, and.... I don't nderstand the vaults. Are they mini dungeons, or just rooms full of treasure. Also, Link is collecting the coins, has the guy lost them? Or is Link just finding new ones? I think it'd be cool if there were a finite number of the coins, all taken from an ancient ruin or something, and some HAD been stolen from the guy, and Link returns them to his collection.

So I'm all for implementing this, the seashells were vague and not fleshed out, they were kind of just a place holder item. And now, something better and more interesting has come along.
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