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Author Topic: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT  (Read 15026 times)

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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2012, 02:04:10 am »
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Yup, the Deku Tree would be fallen over.  Ganondorf uprooted it himself before he was sealed :)

The kokiri forest/village itself will also be an interesting path to the temple.  There could be skull kids that have to be saved from kokiri spirits who are haunting them or even witness a kokiri spirit turn into a Stalfos which you then have to fight.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2012, 05:42:17 am »
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I'm a little tentative in posting here, because the only people I've seen discussing in here are the mods and manager, and far be it from a lowly CP servant to barge into their conversation unannounced. However, I do have a question which pertains to how Link gets the cogs from the temples. Are the temple guardians which I've heard are protecting the cogs (spirit of Jabu Jabu, spirit(s) of the Greak Deku Tree/Kokiri, etc.) being oppressed within their own temples/dungeons by the evil forces occupying those areas (bosses, mini-bosses, etc.)? And is Link going through those areas, defeating the enemies, and being rewarded by proving his courage, or going in their, defeating the enemies, and freeing the spirits which protect the gears?

I ask this because I was thinking that, on a similar note to the "four horsemen" idea being played around with here a while ago, it would make no sense for the evil beings which reside in the dungeons to be trying to stop Link carrying out Ganondorf's mission (at least the larger bosses/mini-bosses), because they are under the influence/are servants to Ganondorf. I understand that he may not be able to directly control them because he's "lying low" at Hyrule castle, but having them technically work against him is a plot hole which is, at least to me, a nagging annoyance. And there are myriad ways which I can think of which could fix this, and I'm sure with a bit of community input and conversation a realistic and satisfying "patch" to said hole could be created.

Or has this been talked about already, and I just didn't get the memo? I don't know every bit of information here in the forums regarding the story, but I've combed through a lot of things, and thoroughly understand the basic plot line which is in the KoT GDD.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2012, 02:37:55 pm »
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Hey Fish, welcome to the forums. Doesn't hurt my feelings that you're asking a question here.

Anyway, we haven't really discussed that much. I've kind of been thinking that there are traps and puzzles set ages ago to keep people out of the temples, those oppose Link/Ganon. And then there are just wild animals that Link fights, maybe the monsters were attracted to the world because if Ganon, but they're just wild and destructive and aggressive, they don't recognize Link as working for Ganon, they don't recognize Ganon, they just find the world with Ganon in it a comfortable place to be, and they attack people nearby.

The bosses, I think, if they aren't the same situation, are just there to attack anybody going into the temples. Doesn't even matter who they're working for.

So I don't guess that the guardians are being oppressed, then. They're just spirits anyway, so they're kinda like ghosts. They might not even be aware of what's going on when nobody's defeated the boss.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2012, 03:27:52 pm »
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The bosses could very easily be the same situation and I don't see any reason not to make them that way. 

As for the guardians, I don't think we discussed them that much.  If we even have guardians, we certainly wouldn't want them to communicate with Link as that would seem rather odd since he's doing the dirty work. 

Maybe these guardians could be who woke up the ancient hero?
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2012, 09:10:13 pm »
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Welcome SelcouthFish. Max and I are mostly working on the story with some input from Star and MG. We had decided earlier that a few people would be working on the main storyline. This to prevent the story from being pulled to a dozen different directions. Which would end up in a mess or very long drawn out discussions leading nowhere. As you can probably see the discussion for just the main red hering antagonist has already been quiet a length to read.

However that doesn't mean that we will completely ignore everything about the community. If you have a good idea feel free to post it. And if we like it we might use it in the story. It is a Community Project after all. But do consider the place in story development.


About the Guardians or dungeon bosses. Well we aren't there just yet. Although good to talk about maybe. My thoughts is to make these varied in reason why they are there. One might be placed as a protector of the cog, another might just be a very power invading beast (with little talent). Another monster might have been send by Ganondorf to get the cog, but he considered a failure as the monster didn't came out. I think that maybe the final escalation with Maple might be that she would summon the dungeon boss to stop Link from getting the cog and she gets blown away when Link defeats the boss  :P. There are many options and we'll see when we get there  ;). Now I like to focus on the adventures with the Deku and the Kokiri.   
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 09:25:43 pm by Zaeranos »
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2012, 09:06:18 pm »
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Alright, so we're probably all busy because of finals, but I'm starting to forget where we left off.

There was discussion about the Kokori spirits, I was under the impression the Deku kind of reverenced them as gods because of plot stuff from the old KoT iteration, which mentioned them wanting to sacrifice the king to the Kokori spirits, I liked the idea, but if there's a good reason for the Deku to not think of the Kokori as gods, then cool.

So Link will prove himself to the Deku and be told by the butler that the cog is hidden in the Kokori forest. Presumably Link will either get the boomerang now, or he got it after completing the last task to help the Deku, which is going through the forest maze, right?

So now he'll go through the forest maze, which Link already went through and defeated a Miniboss type in the middle, allowing quicker access to the gate to the Kokori forest. Link goes through the Kokori forest a little ways and comes across the abandoned overgrown village where the Kokori used to live. He sees the hero's shade looking at the village, but it disappears when Link approaches it and some enemy appears.

I was thinking that the Kokiri village would be a large puzzle itself, where you had to find switches in the old houses to open the way to the Deku tree or something. Then the Deku tree would be a part of the dungeon, either dead and hollow or fallen over.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2012, 09:29:27 pm »
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I like the village being a puzzle, or maybe even an extension of the maze itself (one that still exists after the maze vanishes).  We could make the Deku Tree lead up to the temple entrance (guess we could say it fell over and landed conveniently in the temple).  The player could either go through the tree to get there or walk ontop of it.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2012, 07:52:36 pm »
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Sorry for not participating so much. I just got my WiiU  8)

Alright, so we're probably all busy because of finals, but I'm starting to forget where we left off.
I think we were still working on the tasks Link has to do for the Deku. But got a bit sidetracked ahead to what the dungeon bosses should be.

There was discussion about the Kokori spirits, I was under the impression the Deku kind of reverenced them as gods because of plot stuff from the old KoT iteration, which mentioned them wanting to sacrifice the king to the Kokori spirits, I liked the idea, but if there's a good reason for the Deku to not think of the Kokori as gods, then cool.
The reason I'm against it is because their deaths is a tragedy, due to the evil act of Ganon destroying the Deku Tree. If the Kokiri are revered as deities, then it seems as if it was good that Kokiri died. Which makes Ganon's act of killing the Deku Tree a good thing.

So Link will prove himself to the Deku and be told by the butler that the cog is hidden in the Kokori forest. Presumably Link will either get the boomerang now, or he got it after completing the last task to help the Deku, which is going through the forest maze, right?

So now he'll go through the forest maze, which Link already went through and defeated a Miniboss type in the middle, allowing quicker access to the gate to the Kokori forest.
I don't think the Forest Maze that turns into a part of the swamp should lead to the dungeon already, because as you said earlier. Link would already access Kokiri Forest, turn around and then is allowed access to the Forest. Thus I think it would be better as an illusion to the Deku Swamp.

My idea with the Kokiri Forest was another kind of maze. I was thinking that the layout of the Forest except for a few spots is fluid. That the Kokiri Spirits are moving, growing, shrinking trees and rocks in the area, and thus constantly changing the path you can follow. And when you get the boomerang the you can throw them at the Kokiri Spirits to prevent them from changing the area. But the last bit might be weird.

I like the idea of the Kokiri village being a puzzle, but first lets deal with the tasks Link has to do. (not in order)
1) Forest Maze: Link has to travel through a part of the Swamp turned into a forest by a monster.
2) Mad Scrub poison well: Somewhere in the Deku swamp is a plant/fungus like enemy sending out poison/spores that turns deku scrub into mad scrubs.
3) ?
4) ?
5) ? (is five enough)
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2012, 12:03:40 am »
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5 is plenty!

At some point, he will need to of course enter the Deku Palace to be informed of whats going on there.  I like the idea of breaking and entering honestly, because it fits the stealthy thievery theme.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2012, 12:05:37 am »
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Well, thanks for having in mind the Forest Maze. Shall I redesign it to make it fit better?
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2013, 10:54:35 pm »
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By the looks of it, I think we're still defining the kokiri forest.

I do have some thoughts I want to share but I'm still thinking them through, and thinking on the practibility of them.

But I'm thinking that the fungus creature niek suggested, would taking over their minds making them twisted and sickly looking.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 10:56:23 pm by Kami »
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2013, 05:03:18 am »
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Well, the spores would cause them to become mad scrubs, an enemy typically defined by their differing coloration so I imagine we could color them sickly looking.

Niek, about the Kokori being worshipped, I wasn't thinking their deaths made them revered deities. I was thinking more along the lines that their tragic destruction caused their spirits to linger on the terrestrial plane, and the Deku are afraid of them, in their paranoia they offer sacrifices every once in a while. The Kokori spirits don't have to be bad for the paranoid Deku to be afraid of them and therefore worship them. But we can do it however, if you still think that them not being worshipped is better, I just wanted you to understand my point, but I'd rather defer to you. I think you're better at this, honestly ;p

Also, the five ish tasks Link needs to accomplish:

You mentioned:
1 Defeat a fungal body creating mad scrubs
2 Defeat something in the swamp and thereby clear the fog and confusing, maze illusion stuff

I'd add
3 Probably defeat another fungal body that creates mad scrubs
4 Find a way to rescue Deku trapped outside the village by monstrous growths and/or swampfrog monsters
5 Somehow help shore up the village's defenses

Not necessarily in that order.

Then Link could sneak into the palace and encounter the king, confront some monsters, and win the Deku's support and information on how to get into the forest temple.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2013, 09:17:26 pm »
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Niek, about the Kokori being worshipped, I wasn't thinking their deaths made them revered deities. I was thinking more along the lines that their tragic destruction caused their spirits to linger on the terrestrial plane, and the Deku are afraid of them, in their paranoia they offer sacrifices every once in a while. The Kokori spirits don't have to be bad for the paranoid Deku to be afraid of them and therefore worship them. But we can do it however, if you still think that them not being worshipped is better, I just wanted you to understand my point, but I'd rather defer to you. I think you're better at this, honestly ;p
I do understand and if you look at the Deku you would think they are based on some inca or aztec culture. I'm not sure, but the Aztecs had sacrifices to reinvigorate the sun. However Hyrule in every Zelda game is some utopian land with its quircks and characteristics. And than a demon (Ganon, Vaati, Maladus, Majora, Demise) comes and upsets the utopian society. I don't think that revering or being afraid of the spirits is a bad thing. The deku might have build some shrine to honor or appease them (which could be the door to the Kokiri Forest).

Human sacrifice or in this case Deku sacrifice, just does not seem to be something that would fit a utopian society. However Majora's Mask showed that it is still plausible that Deku would burn someone at the stake to punish them in a flash of anger. And the Deku are angry at the king for not doing his job and protecting the village, but only protecting himself. Or we would again need to put the focus on the King selling out the cog or something.

The burning at the stake I don't have a problem with the King burning at the stake. The problem is more the reasoning behind it. Actually I think that it could even be hilarious. The stake is lit on fire, the King asking/screaming for water to dowse the flames. And suddenly he get a shitload of water over him, because the monsters came through the roof where the King had his personal pool or something.  :P (The latter is a bit of a whimpsy brain storm.

------

Another idea I had for the tasks was that some bokoblin (or other monster) had stolen the merchandise of a Deku merchant and Link has to get the stuff back. But that could probably also work with the Zora and Goron areas. And maybe a taks that is probably a prelude to what will come later in the game. Link would find either a sick Goron or beaten Zora that is plagued by monsters or is in need for some medicine.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2013, 03:40:31 pm »
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Can we get a summary of the Deku Story up to this point?  I've been a bit out of the loop on this one recently.

EDIT: It actually looks like we're pretty solid on the Deku Story, so I'm going to summarize it and add it to the Wiki.  Let's move forward with the Kokiri Forest.

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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2013, 12:32:15 am »
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So far we know that we're going to pass through the forest maze to the Kokiri Forest and into the Kokiri Village.  Defeating something in the swamp to clear the fog could be something simple.  Like a room underground full of fungus and plants that create the fog and more spores.  The room could connect to some capillary type of things to the surface of the swamp, filling it.  Link could clear out these caverns of the plants, clearing the fog.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2013, 06:52:36 am »
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So far we know that we're going to pass through the forest maze to the Kokiri Forest and into the Kokiri Village.
Actually, I think the forest maze is independent of Kokiri Forest, because once the the Forest Maze is cleared it turns back into the swamp.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2013, 02:02:04 pm »
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I was under the impression that it was a path between the Swamp and the Forest?

EDIT: Deku story has also been finalized and added to the wiki.  Sorry, but you guys were running in too many circles on it, so I filled in the small missing pieces and uploaded it.

http://wiki.zfgc.com/KOT:Deku
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2013, 04:46:29 pm »
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Yeah, the forest maze and the swamp have always been a bit vague in my mind too. Niek, don't you have a pretty clear idea? Can you lay out the whole forest maze/swamp/Kokori forest for us?

I think the idea of attacking the root system in caves to destroy fruiting bodies (mushrooms) that are blocking the way is really cool. Especially because the root system is the real mushroom, and the fruiting bodies are only part, so it's more accurate mycologically. My girlfriend is really into mushrooms, so I'm all about this !@#$% by association.

As for the Kokori Village, we probably shouldn't make it too long. We've already got lots of stuff before the first dungeon, and the player probablY just wants to get there already.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2013, 08:24:40 pm »
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I think the idea of attacking the root system in caves to destroy fruiting bodies (mushrooms) that are blocking the way is really cool. Especially because the root system is the real mushroom, and the fruiting bodies are only part, so it's more accurate mycologically. My girlfriend is really into mushrooms, so I'm all about this !@#$% by association.

Wat.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2013, 09:15:45 pm »
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Quote
My girlfriend is really into mushrooms, so I'm all about this !@#$% by association.

Oh ok.

On a related note, I agree that the village should be brief.  Lead the player through a few houses, read some diaries on the Kokiri tragedy and then find the Deku Tree remains?  Then maybe travel through that, which is FILLED with fungus and crap (being that it's a dead rotting tree) to get to the temple.  We could maybe even have the Deku Tree's incredibly weakened spirit speak to the player to guide them (and never actually revive it - just leave it as is).
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