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Author Topic: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT  (Read 15006 times)

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thestig

Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2013, 10:23:28 pm »
Hey Max, I've had a couple of trips to Mushroom Mountain myself. I never saw you there though :(

/endtopichijack
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2013, 08:41:54 pm »
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Yeah, the forest maze and the swamp have always been a bit vague in my mind too. Niek, don't you have a pretty clear idea? Can you lay out the whole forest maze/swamp/Kokori forest for us?
Well, considering Blaze's topic. The view I have of it is that the Forest Maze is a part of the Deku Swamp that got turned into an illusion. Once the forest maze is cleared the illussion disappears. I think Blaze wanted to make a river shooting minigame that would replace the forest, which I think is pretty neat. I think that this river would be an offshoot of the river from River Valley and that the water of this offshoot might overflow and supply the swamp with water.

My idea that the entrance to Kokiri Forest is in the palace grounds, which was not accessible due to the palace being locked. I was thinking that the entrance is open as long as the palace is open. What I mean to say is that the player does not have to do the throne room events to get in Kokiri Forest. Although in the interaction with Maple it is hinted to the player to go there. The throne room with the King is just that the deku go back to the village and Link is granted permanent access to the palace. And the Butler might tell/show Link the entrance to Kokiri Forest.


I had an idea for the area of Kokiri Forest. I dont know if you guys ever played the board game Labyrinth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth_%28board_game%29). Maybe it would be possible that trees grow and shrink at random time intervals. And you would need to navigate through the forest with an ever changing path. Obtaining the boomerang would allow the player to force these growth/trees to shrink and open the path.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2013, 03:36:23 pm »
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So something like this?



I like the labyrinth idea. Using the boomerang to just stop trees from growing is a bit peculiar, but maybe kinda like in oracle of ages when those fairies were messing with the forest? You would have to boomerang Kokori spirits to get them to make the woods hold still.

Also, one thing we should consider is that if you can just bypass solving the Deku people's problems, the butler couldn't give you the boomerang, so you could get stuck in the forest?
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2013, 03:41:47 pm »
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The trees could grow or shrink by activating a switch on the trees themselves with the boomerang.  We could also block the entrance to the forest with one of these trees (definitely don't want the player to skip the Deku Palace)
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2013, 03:52:40 pm »
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I thought of a switch on the trees too, but that seems frightfully artificial. I mean, the trees are organic, so I feel like switches don't work too well...

Also, I just want to say that it'd be REALLY cool if we could have Link climbing the trees and branches, and you'd have to get some trees to grow so he could reach an area, then you would shrink that or other trees so move along. Or you could depend on the spirit to do the growing/shrinking and you just have to time it.

Also, the boomerang doesn't have to control the growing/shrinking mechanic directly. We could have the growing mechanic, and you would need the boomerang along with it. For example, you might need to climb a grown tree to be able to hit a switch with the boomerang that opens a gate, or you need to wait for a tree to grow so you can reach a pine cone or fruit in it that you need to hold down a switch or feed a monkey or something.

I don't feel like the boomerang makes much sense for controlling the trees directly, though.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2013, 04:42:27 pm »
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Well, considering we'll have wall climbing, we're going to have the climbing animation so we might as well do it that.  The boomerang could also be used to cut down weaker or dead trees.

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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2013, 05:29:41 pm »
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So something like this?



Yes something like that.

The idea I had is that if you hit the growth with the boomerang than the growth would retreat and you probably see a dizzy Kokiri Spirit with stars above its head. But that could still be worked. And I was also thinking that the boomerang is obtained in the Kokiri Forest, so that the player at least has to deal with the ever changing forest, because afterwards it would be easy to make you own path with the boomerang.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2013, 02:42:25 pm »
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Well, let's continue on for an overview of the area.

We know now that the player will use the boomerang to navigate the forest by raising and lowering trees.  Eventually we come to the Kokiri Ruins.  What should happen here?  How should we convey the tragedy of the Kokiri to the player?

Also, this area should be brief.  We've taken enough of the player's time with the swamp and I'm sure they'll want to just get to the dungeon already.  We can use the area for sidequests, but the main storyline sequence here shouldn't be long.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2013, 05:42:19 pm »
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I agree about the brevity. That's one reason I was a bit confused about the Kokori forest/swamp thing, I kinda though they were like one.

Maybe we can combine some of the Kokori forest and ruins, so that it's quicker. And of course, still allow for optional areas.

I'm thinking the ruins will have some sort of puzzle. There is something blocking the way to the Deku Tree, and you need to do things in the ruined houses to get past. I'm thinking we already used the "sever the roots to destroy the aboveground blockade" thing already with the Deku, so probably not that, but a similar thing. Perhaps Skulltulas have spun a large web blocking the way to the deku tree, and Link has to get to the corners to cut it down? Or it could be as simple as, there are four torches in the ruined houses, you have to light all four and the blockade disappears.

But I'm thinking that having the ruined houses will be enough to tell you the Kokori are gone, and have been for a while. I think having Link find pages of a journal could work well too, say there are 3 or 4 pages of a Kokori girl's journal in the ruins. Reading them would give the player a more concrete idea of what happened, and perhaps returning lost pages to the body of the journal could be a small sidequest that gives something like 20 or 50 rupees.

Or we could involve Maple again, she could fly by Link and outright tell him that children used to live in these houses, but after the Deku tree was uprooted in the war, they disappeared.

Once Link solves the puzzle and gets into the Deku tree area, he finds that it's uprooted, and he enters the first dungeon.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2013, 05:53:42 pm »
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I was thinking that in this place we have Link meet the ancient hero for the first time. Link could overhear the Hero and Maple talking. Meaning that the hero is a bit of reminiscing about the past when the deku tree was alive. At the end he tells Maple where the entrance to the dungeon is. Maple flies inside there and the hero disappears.

For the rest I think the ruins show a bit of the story and I think Max's diary idea is good. And maybe we have some place that Link can look at walls and see some drawings faded or otherwise. However these are optional and more for decoration.

Then we also have Tilo. I think that right before Link enters the dungeon he is halted by Tilo who taunts him races inside the dungeon and locks the door with one final tree barrier that Link will have to remove with the boomerang.

Inside the dungeon Link will have to deal with Tilo a number of times. And one time Link will enter a room where he will see Maple again for the last time untill we reach the Zora area or something. Tilo will also be here and she springs a trap on the unsuspecting Maple, which rockets her out of the dungeon with a huge "WHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!". If Link manages to fall for the same trap he will also be thrown outside the dungeon and he will have to enter again.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 06:09:12 pm by Zaeranos »
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2013, 06:16:28 pm »
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I actually like the idea of combining the forest and ruins.  It'll make for some interesting use of the currently known thieving abilities.  Expanding on Max's idea of the torches, some of the torches could be in places that would be unreachable without some thief movements.  Each torch could release a pesticide into the air that will get rid of some bugs or something blocking the way.

As Link approaches the Deku Tree, we could bring the ancient hero encounter in that Niek mentioned.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2013, 09:56:33 pm »
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So probably how it will flow is that when Link walks into the ruins, he will see Maple with a hazy, suspicious looking figure, the Hero's Shade, and we'll overhear the Hero saying that this place was once so full of life, and saying that Maple can find the cog if she goes North (where the Deku Tree Remains are). The Shade will disappear and Maple will fly away.

Link will then go through the Kokori ruins to try to find a way to get past the big blockade.


Also, I realized we should probably have the puzzle in the Kokori Ruins involve the Kokori spirits. I feel like it might be the most logically easy solution, like, make the most sense.

There's a barrier, perhaps an overgrown tree or bush, blocking the path to the deku tree.

A) You have the solve puzzles to acquire 3-4 pages of the kokori's journal. Returning the pages to the diary will appease the spirit and she will open the path to the deku tree.

B) 3-4 spirits will be in the woods, each with their own puzzles. When Link solves the puzzles, the spirits will appear and fix the blockade so Link can get to the deku tree. Puzzles could be a throwback to OoT, could be cool. Like, you've gotta help a spirit move the rocks out of Mido's yard, or you've gotta return an old, rusted sword to its chest in the middle of the rolling rock maze or something.

Personally, I think A would probably flow better.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2013, 05:02:57 pm »
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I kind of like the later, actually!  We could use it to show how screwed up some of the Kokiri Spirits have become.  Imagine a spirit that for whatever reason REALLY wants the old Kokiri Sword returned to the chest.  We could have him/her freaking the !@#$% out about it.

"THE SWORD!! THE SWORD!! PUT IT BACK!!!" 

And then suddenly they're calm when the puzzle is completed.  The journal could also become one of these puzzles.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2013, 05:17:24 pm »
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I think option B also might be the better solution. For the journal I think it is better to have it optional. Back story is really great to have, however the main story should not be cluttered with it. Journals and wall paintings can offer great detail in backstory, but it can slow down the pace of the main story. So I think these things should be optional if the player desires to look at them though.

You could make the journal pages a sidequest. In addition we have already accepted the character Tilo, whome you will meet at the entrance of the dungeon and makes your life miserable all throughout the dungeon.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2013, 05:27:41 pm »
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Alright, just summarizing what we have so far:

Link will enter the Forest/Ruins and have to navigate the old village by climbing buildings, overcoming obstacles/enemies and using the boomerang to move trees.  On his way he'll overhear Maple talking to the Hero's Shade about the cog and the Deku Tree.  With this information, he'll find the path to the tree blocked.  As he investigates the forest further, he'll come across 4 spirits, each desperately wanting a different favor.  By completing all 4, the spirits will be calmed and will open the way to the Deku Tree.

Puzzle 1: Find the old Kokiri Sword and place it in its chest.
Puzzle 2: ???
Puzzle 3: ???
Puzzle 4: ???
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2013, 05:40:18 pm »
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I think appeasing the Kokiri Spirits should be before the Hero.

The Hero is also reminiscing and not just talk about the cog. Which shows that he is rather old.

To get into the dungeon I think we should be introducing Tilo. Or do you want to scrap her.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2013, 05:53:24 pm »
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When I designed Tilo, I had her in mind only for the temple itself.  Definitely not scrapping her, I just didn't consider her for this area.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2013, 07:46:52 pm »
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Okay, I think if we're having spirits agitated about needing things done, then we should carry that over to Tilo, where she berates and gives Link trouble because she wants something specific in the temple done, then calms down once Link has done that thing (defeated the boss, presumably.)

Niek, I was thinking that the introduction of the Hero should be before the spirits because in his introduction, he tells Maple (and Link, overhearing it) where they're headed: toward the Deku tree. This will give the player a sense of direction, I know I want to go this way but it's blocked. Instead of, hmm, there's a blocked road here. I should unblock it to advance the plot... and then find out the motivation for overcoming the obstacle AFTER overcoming it.

1. Return the Kokori sword (we could have the spirit allude to the fact that somebody took it out to fend of Ganon, inspired by the Hero of Time. Obviously just a vague allusion, though.)

2. I was thinking have a spirit want the rocks of grass cleared out from in front of Mido's house, just like how the Kokori in OoT was tasked. Like they never got all the rocks cleared so they're anal about it in death.

3. Maybe include a reference to how OoT Link needed a shield to get in to see the Deku Tree also? Like, KoT Link would need to find a shield in the rubble of the shop or something?

4. There's also the simple, defeat all these enemies that are inhabiting my old house. You don't want Deku Baba slobbering all over where your bed used to be before your village was destroyed.


I was also thinking that with returning the sword, it would be fun to do an OoT/Indiana Jones reference, where you've gotta pick up this sword (like the fake master swords in ALTTP) and carry it to the chest in the woods. Then after you replace it, that bolder from OoT comes crashing through and you've gotta outrun it! Failure would result in getting smashed would result in having to restart and carry the sword to the chest again.
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2013, 08:28:20 pm »
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Hero encounter definitely should happen first, otherwise there's no reason for the player to remove the barrier.

Speaking of which, what IS the barrier anyway?
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Re: Story Pass :: SECOND ACT
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2013, 03:23:06 pm »
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Yeah, I was thinking some kind of branches twisted up that recede into the ground when they go away.
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