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Author Topic: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic  (Read 26883 times)

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #100 on: April 21, 2016, 05:14:31 pm »
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That's more speculation than anything and the Iron Knuckle has existed in Zelda since before the Gerudo were a thing.  In the future please don't make an assumption like this.  The Wiki documents have final say in character/npc background and design.
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Starforsaken101

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #101 on: April 21, 2016, 05:17:22 pm »
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It's a fan theory, not a fact. Might want to research first.

Do not change the heads to Gerudos. This is a waste of time.
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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #102 on: April 21, 2016, 05:52:37 pm »
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Yet as it is already done, shouldn't it stay like this? I think everyone did a great job with doing the sprite and it would be a nice easter egg for Zelda nostalgics.
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Starforsaken101

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #103 on: April 21, 2016, 05:58:07 pm »
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Yet as it is already done, shouldn't it stay like this? I think everyone did a great job with doing the sprite and it would be a nice easter egg for Zelda nostalgics.

It's an interesting thought, but as it stands the Iron Knuckles will stay as their tradition armor-clad selves. Implementing this as fan service later on, maybe, but this is not a priority in the engine right now. Does that work? I just don't want SpritingBrad to continue dwelling on useless head alterations when the originals were fine.
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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #104 on: April 21, 2016, 06:01:20 pm »
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The armor is fantastic and Spritingbrad did a great job on it.  The underarmor looks great as well.  The head is the only thing that would need to change, but I don't know what to change it to..hrum.  Maybe we can just keep the helmet on and leave it as the only part of the armor that doesn't fall off?
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Starforsaken101

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #105 on: April 21, 2016, 06:02:17 pm »
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The armor is fantastic and Spritingbad did a great job on it.  The underarmor looks great as well.  The head is the only thing that would need to change, but I don't know what to change it to..hrum.  Maybe we can just keep the helmet on and leave it as the only part of the armor that doesn't fall off?

I was always under the impression the helm would stay on haha. I think having the helmet off is !@#$% goofy, seeing as in the original games their helmets NEVER fell off.
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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #106 on: April 21, 2016, 06:03:17 pm »
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Yea, this seems like the path of least resistance here
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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #107 on: April 21, 2016, 06:44:55 pm »
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Sound good to me :)
At least we also have the geberic gerudo sprite, which is nice ;)
So we should work on the armored version,  and if there is a change of mind to if the armor comes off then we will do that aswell
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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #108 on: April 21, 2016, 06:48:20 pm »
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Good point of having the generic sprite!

And just to clarify - The armor WILL come off, but the helmet will remain.  So keep the unarmored version you have now, just stick the helmet on it :)
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dotyue

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #109 on: April 21, 2016, 06:51:47 pm »
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since there ARE arms and stuff under it, the armor could contain a skeleton (because his owner died a long time ago) or some kind of clockwork puppet

i dont really care for the gerudo, i just looked what is under the armor since the initial spriteset didn't have any armor removal which was stated in the wiki and what i found with "iron knuckle" were gerudo heads from OoT and a ton of fanart with Gerudo Knuckles...
i just wanted to help out since i don't have time for my own project and can go whenever i want after i've done some sprites here

maybe the angry-mob could be so kind and provide animation videos/gifs of the Iron Knuckle of their dreams they thought of when writing the wiki
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Starforsaken101

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #110 on: April 21, 2016, 07:08:10 pm »
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Alright,

So first off, hi, I don't know if you know me but I am partially in charge of this project with Steve. I did not know being in charge was a synonym for being an angry mob! Even though this is a community project, we still need to give a certain level of control over what gets in here.

Since you're on this forum, I'd like to assume you have played OoT but I'm starting to doubt myself. When fighting the Iron Knuckle in OoT (at least), the armor falls off gradually:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zIuiVop1L4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zIuiVop1L4</a>

In this specific video, yes, Nabooru gets in the !@#$% robot. Let's forget about that.

Pay attention to the mechanics of the fight and how after a certain amount of hits, pieces of the Knuckle's armor drop off and the Knuckle becomes more and more enraged. THIS is what we're talking about. Notice how the helm never falls off. There is NO evidence of ANYTHING being under there because armor is worn in layers. You don't just go gallavanting off into battle with literally pieces of metal on your naked-ass body; you have other layers underneath either of chainmail or leather, or whatever to hold the metal properly.

This is not of my dreams. This is what Nintendo programmed in the 90s.

There is no need to show anything under the armor except for the base layers of armor. It's not that complicated. All we are saying is that we do not want to overcomplicate things right now because we want to get the very basics into the game. When you google an Iron Knuckle and check the wiki, it very obviously states the Gerudo thing is a theory. Rule #1 on the internet is that fanart isn't necessarily canon.

We very much appreciate you helping out, don't get me wrong. However, you are not the art lead and you come across as a know-it-all at times. Even in your response, you're basically accusing Steve and I of being an angry mob and that is beyond disrespectful.

tl;dr do some research, try not to derail development, and respect the team. It's not hard.
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dotyue

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #111 on: April 21, 2016, 07:29:51 pm »
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Thanks for the constructive Reply

edit: i tried to look carefully several times to see when the layers fell off but before it gets beaten, i just don't see it... i will look into it again tomorrow
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 07:43:27 pm by dotyue »
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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #112 on: April 21, 2016, 07:51:51 pm »
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Thanks for the constructive Reply

edit: i tried to look carefully several times to see when the layers fell off but before it gets beaten, i just don't see it... i will look into it again tomorrow

Actually, you can't see them fall off in the battle itself as they don't. Seems like it was not implented in OoT that way.
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Starforsaken101

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #113 on: April 21, 2016, 07:54:53 pm »
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Thanks for the constructive Reply

edit: i tried to look carefully several times to see when the layers fell off but before it gets beaten, i just don't see it... i will look into it again tomorrow

Actually, you can't see them fall off in the battle itself as they don't. Seems like it was not implented in OoT that way.

I should have specified that you can't see them physically fall off, but the Knuckle does lose some beef on it.

EDIT: There's really not much to look into. It doesn't have to SPECIFICALLY be like in the video. Just have a model fully armed, a little bit of armor off, and a bit more. That's it.
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Miles07

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #114 on: April 21, 2016, 11:32:03 pm »
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I think we may be confusing the Darknut with the Iron Knuckle, again.
To establish a point*, we are only looking at the Ocarina of Time rendition of the Iron Knuckle, so all of our facts should be based on that never conflict with the established facts about Iron Knuckles in that game.

However, and I can't believe I'm saying this... this project IS a fangame, which means, *GASP* the project leaders are allowed to incorporate theory if they so wish. If that means they want every Iron Knuckle to have a Gerudo driver, or to be animated by magic/ghosts/spirits, or to even be steampunky clockwork robots, then so be it. If they want the helmet to never come off, then apply the superglue.
But if the project leaders decide to change their minds later, the work can already be done for it so that new assets don't need to be created laaaaaater, but rather they can see what can be made with all the assets and tools up front. Just because there are sprites of helm-less Gerudo Iron Knuckles already does not mean "scrap it! We'll never need to use it", but rather "backlog it. We may or may not need it later".

And besides, this is a discussion board anyway. Perhaps what should have happened was a new topic be created for the discussion, development, and the submission of individual enemies?

*NOTE: projects change. That's a real-world thing, and it applies to projects like this too. The leaders can decide to incorporate other games' ideas into this game, or create a hybridization of other Zelda eras, if they want to.

-----

EDIT: Sorry, I had to vent a little bit. Please don't take the above 100% seriously, or personal, alright?
Just an idea that may or may not be accepted: You could have only one cutscene/character be a helmet-less Gerudo suiting up or something. Just one. That would by itself be enough to establish, without explicit dialogue, that all the Iron Knuckles in this game are really Gerudo.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 11:34:48 pm by Miles07 »
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I was talking to my friend last night, and he was mentioning about how in 1980, he thought the internet would become this amazing place where people from across the world would share ideas. I was telling him about how this project [KOT] has worked, lurching along for years and drawn by different people from across the globe, and he thought it was beautiful. And he was right, it's awesome. :D

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #115 on: April 22, 2016, 01:13:43 am »
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Quote
Perhaps what should have happened was a new topic be created for the discussion, development, and the submission of individual enemies?

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=39636.0

Quote
That would by itself be enough to establish, without explicit dialogue, that all the Iron Knuckles in this game are really Gerudo.

We don't want this.  As Dot Yue said in his first post, it doesn't make sense to have a Gerudo in the Water Temple.

In any case, SpritingBrad already made quite a fancy lookin' helmet so that shouldn't be too bad to incorporate.  Keep the Gerudo base on the side and we'll reuse it later for the Gerudo themselves.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that you guys are doing a fantastic job and the sprite looks great
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Miles07

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #116 on: April 22, 2016, 02:00:38 am »
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Keep the Gerudo base on the side and we'll reuse it later for the Gerudo themselves.

That sounds like I got to make a few more variations (on a theme) of Gerudos, huh?
So be it.
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Starforsaken101

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #117 on: April 22, 2016, 02:44:41 am »
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I completely agree with you, Miles, and I appreciate your understanding a lot! It's a FAN game and we should have every amount of freedom to do what we want, right? Well, the thing is, I already stated this and I'd like to reiterate: I want to get basic functionality in the game first, and then maybe later we can think about making a Gerudo the driving force of the Iron Knuckles. However, I really don't believe in this theory: I truly believe they reused the model of Nabooru as a base to save on assets. Does that mean I get final say? No, not necessarily, but for now Steve and I do not want to implement this. I'm sorry, but you do not have final say. I think we've been extremely fair so far - only thing I really said no on was the first sprite of Tilo because it really didn't represent her well (I created Tilo).

And seriously? Do you guys really want to waste your breath on a Gerudo piloting an Iron Knuckle, or a game mechanic that is much more cool?

We have said this before, and I will say it again: this is a community project, yes, but it is still being led by a small amount of members to keep content under control. I don't know if you work as a developer in the real world, but one of the greatest problems in game development is having a "circlejerk of ideas". When we started this project, I was very much against having the entire community even input ideas because of this, but after some convincing from Steve and removing the gigantic stick up my ass, I decided fine, this might be fun. However, to compromise, we established staff for the project to review said ideas and have final approval. If you don't feel comfortable with this, well, sorry lol, but this is how we're working so we can actually get stuff done.

Before we established this system, we had a gigantic circlejerk for the first zone that lasted oh, probably a year because more voices == less agreements being made. And you're right: projects change.

Alright now that it's been said again, LET'S CONTINUE HAVING FUN! That's what it's about! You guys are our powerhouse of ideas and assets, and you're all amazingly talented. I love seeing the progress on this game :). Good job everyone.
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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #118 on: April 22, 2016, 03:17:55 am »
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Keep the Gerudo base on the side and we'll reuse it later for the Gerudo themselves.

That sounds like I got to make a few more variations (on a theme) of Gerudos, huh?
So be it.

You can hold off on that tight butthole.  We're a ways off from the Gerudo part of the game
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dotyue

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Re: KOT Enemy Sprite Topic
« Reply #119 on: April 22, 2016, 04:48:48 am »
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For the return to "Ontopic" as for to have Enemy Sprites, i made a Compilation of all what we have for the current Iron Knuckle so far

The First ones are the what i would consider done, by the point of discussion:

- Standing Side/Down
- Walking Down
- Swing Attack Down

Then there is an "almost done" i guess?

- Slam Attack

and under the red line are Parts (like Hands and Axes) and WIPs (like the Naked Knuckles which need a new Head)

from what i see and what i read here there are for the knuckle following Animations/Sprites left:

- Idle Up
- Walking Side/Up
- Swing Attack Side/Up
- Slam Attack Down (Finishing)
- Slam Attack Side/Up
- Charge Attack Side/Down/Up
- Lightning Attack (< where does it come from? an axe swing/slam or extra?)
- Gets Hurt
- Naked Variations

- Black Variation
- Hammer for Black Variation


Well thats alot D: I'll go sleep now
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