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[Giverny]

Giverny

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

Like where?

^THEG_iv^er_ny_PROJECT

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[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

The point hes making is that the gerudo have more influence from Amazonian culture than islamic.

Amazonian culture is a myth, and is not reflected in the Gerudo; the Amazons would never have let a man be their leader, while the Gerudo leader MUST be a man, despite their overwhelmingly female population. The patriachal society reflects that of Islam.

As has been stated, link originally had brown hair, I can say why it was changed though, but his being being blonde and blue eyed doesnt mean nintendo are making a Nazi game. And He and Zelda are pretty much alone in this being Aryan, but surely thats so they stand out as different from the rest, as theyre main characters?

Nope. Dozens of other Aryans; most of the Kokiri, for starters. Many of the Hylians are also Aryan, but they are virtually universally white (I can only think of one non-white Hylian. The annoying boat guy in WW.)

They can speak, write, they have culture. And they are invaders, and you can't deny that they represent the decay in the Hylian society.

True but this doesnt mean theyre a represtentation of Jews.

It's a supposition. Like I said, it's an interpretation. Take it or leave it. Either way, the prejudice against Moblins seems to be racist, and they represent invaders and decay.

But Gorons are violent, dim-witted, unable to defend themselves, and isolationist.

Well except for Link theyre the most able bodied species (Darmani anyone? Darunia? Darbus? Big ass muscly guys who are said to be good at fighting usually, jsut no in circumstance that we see them in...)
The goron elder in MM and all of the elders in TP are clever and wise (ie. NOT dim witted)

Nope; they're inept and foolish. They lack the one great trait of Gorons - strength - and instead attempt actions but have no real consequence.

In TP you have gorons IN hyrule castle town, and they obviously have a good relationship with Kakariko. In MM you have the one that stays in the inn. so some are sociable.

They only reach out to society once Link has already broken their borders and destroyed their sovreignity of their own lands; these actions are never shown as reprehensible, and Link is never punished for them.

[bertfallen]

bertfallen

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

The only racist is you, my freind. Just because you can think up a scenario where the developers suported nazis does not mean that it is true, especially if you have no proof.
 Just because link woul look better with blonde hair does not mean anybody is racist.Also, in WW he has black eyes and in LTTP he has brown hair(the sprite actually has pink hair olo)
The gerudos are based of amazonian culture if I remember correctly. Is Ganon supposed to be Mohammud or something?
The moblins are not jews, they are beasts that can walk.
Lemme geuss Oktorocs are also symbolistic to something nazis hated.

Hes not trying to prove the game as being a racist game. Hes more showing how it could be interpretted as racism. Much like RE5 I'm guessing. Though thats my interpretation of his topic...

[TheDarkJay]

TheDarkJay

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

If you interpret it wrongly in a certain way, anything can be made to seem racist.

Poop. It's brown. It's considered disgusting. We flush it down the toilet. Now, how many seconds does it take you to think of a racist way to interpret that?

It's because you look for anything that could be discriminating towards anyone, and do the whole conspiracy-theory-thing:

[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

The only racist is you, my freind. Just because you can think up a scenario where the developers suported nazis does not mean that it is true, especially if you have no proof.
 Just because link woul look better with blonde hair does not mean anybody is racist.Also, in WW he has black eyes and in LTTP he has brown hair(the sprite actually has pink hair olo)
The gerudos are based of amazonian culture if I remember correctly. Is Ganon supposed to be Mohammud or something?
The moblins are not jews, they are beasts that can walk.
Lemme geuss Oktorocs are also symbolistic to something nazis hated.

Hes not trying to prove the game as being a racist game. Hes more showing how it could be interpretted as racism. Much like RE5 I'm guessing. Though thats my interpretation of his topic...

Exactly. Finally, one person gets the point of this topic.

I'm an English Lit student. I like English Lit. Half the fun is alternate interpretations of any given text or play; why can't the same be applied to video games?

You don't have to agree with it, believe it's right, or anything. Just say, with justification, "this SEEMS to be the case", "it can be interpreted that", "some MAY say".

And you're all assuming I'm racist. xD

If you interpret it wrongly in a certain way, anything can be made to seem racist.

Poop. It's brown. It's considered disgusting. We flush it down the toilet. Now, how many seconds does it take you to think of a racist way to interpret that?

Brown people !@#$% too. They do the same with it. You sayin' every black and indian person ever is self hatin'?

[Giverny]

Giverny

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

and metriod can be interperated as feminist.

Honestly, people, would anybody here want a black link.(Zelda:Oakland?)

^THEG_iv^er_ny_PROJECT

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[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

and metriod can be interperated as feminist.

It... is? The fact that you have a woman who works, provides herself with a living, stands up for what she believes in, wears what she wants to, takes on a male-dominated role in society without sacrificing her femininity, and never betrays her identity is definitely feminist.

Honestly, people, would anybody here want a black link.(Zelda:Oakland?)

I would love to have a black Link. It'd make things more interesting.

And the race of the lead character isn't the point; the world he's portrayed in is white-dominated, run for and by white people.

[TheDarkJay]

TheDarkJay

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

The poop thing could be said to be representative of how God wants to remind them they are always 'disgusting' and 'unclean'? See how this can be done? It's clearly !@#$% (lol poop, !@#$%) but it proves the point that things can easily be made to seem racist.

[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

The poop thing could be said to be representative of how God wants to remind them they are always 'disgusting' and 'unclean'? See how this can be done? It's clearly !@#$% (lol poop, !@#$%) but it proves the point that things can easily be made to seem racist.

God isn't real, and evolution is colourblind; no racism exists.

[SlimmyG]

SlimmyG

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

Amazonian culture is a myth, and is not reflected in the Gerudo; the Amazons would never have let a man be their leader, while the Gerudo leader MUST be a man, despite their overwhelmingly female population. The patriachal society reflects that of Islam.

True, the Amazons wouldnt have a male leader but the fighter-like aspect of Gerudo culture is much more like Amazonian then Islamic, because correct me if im wrong, but in islamic religion arent women just housewifes etc.?
and regardless, they needent be exaclty the same as Amazonian culture as they could have just taken inspiration from, theyre not a carbon copy.

Nope. Dozens of other Aryans; most of the Kokiri, for starters. Many of the Hylians are also Aryan, but they are virtually universally white (I can only think of one non-white Hylian. The annoying boat guy in WW.)

fair enough, i forgot about the kokiris, but its set in a medieval world in what seems to be europian culture. There werent that many black people around then, were there?

It's a supposition. Like I said, it's an interpretation. Take it or leave it. Either way, the prejudice against Moblins seems to be racist, and they represent invaders and decay.

Alright, but i dont think you could make the jump from Moblins being represented in a bad light to them represting jews without wanting it so. If they had jewish features in their looks, personality or culture, i might agree with your point. And as the moblins are shown to be aggresive and followers of Ganon, the king of evil, its understable that people would have a hatred of them.

Nope; they're inept and foolish. They lack the one great trait of Gorons - strength - and instead attempt actions but have no real consequence.

When?
In MM then elder is often refered to as wise and he knows that somethign is up at Snowhead, and all the gorons tell of how he was a great hero, and when you use his spirit in the form of the mask you see his great strength with his attacks.

In TP Darbus is strong enough to break through the wall of solid rock to uncover the hidden village. And you need to wear extremely heavy Iron Boots to even stand a chance in sumo wrestling with them.

They only reach out to society once Link has already broken their borders and destroyed their sovreignity of their own lands; these actions are never shown as reprehensible, and Link is never punished for them.

If you read what the human and gorons say, they say that they had a good relationship with eachother until a short while before Link came, when the gorons shut them out. Link then came and saved the day, and this returned their companionship between man and goron.

Art by Kyuumu, banner by me
Screw this, im off to Hogwarts...

[शेफाली]

शेफाली

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

...
And the race of the lead character isn't the point; the world he's portrayed in is white-dominated, run for and by white people.

But where are the other ethnicities? It can't be racist if only one race is present. Saying that the monsters represent other ethnicities is just a feeble attempt at making connections that aren't there.

[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

Amazonian culture is a myth, and is not reflected in the Gerudo; the Amazons would never have let a man be their leader, while the Gerudo leader MUST be a man, despite their overwhelmingly female population. The patriachal society reflects that of Islam.

True, the Amazons wouldnt have a male leader but the fighter-like aspect of Gerudo culture is much more like Amazonian then Islamic, because correct me if im wrong, but in islamic religion arent women just housewifes etc.?
and regardless, they needent be exaclty the same as Amazonian culture as they could have just taken inspiration from, theyre not a carbon copy.

With no men to fight, the women must. They make sacrifices.

Nope. Dozens of other Aryans; most of the Kokiri, for starters. Many of the Hylians are also Aryan, but they are virtually universally white (I can only think of one non-white Hylian. The annoying boat guy in WW.)

fair enough, i forgot about the kokiris, but its set in a medieval world in what seems to be europian culture. There werent that many black people around then, were there?

It doesn't have to be historically accurate; there are robot eye things that fire laser beams, last I checked, King Arthur didn't fight one of those.

It's a supposition. Like I said, it's an interpretation. Take it or leave it. Either way, the prejudice against Moblins seems to be racist, and they represent invaders and decay.

Alright, but i dont think you could make the jump from Moblins being represented in a bad light to them represting jews without wanting it so. If they had jewish features in their looks, personality or culture, i might agree with your point. And as the moblins are shown to be aggresive and followers of Ganon, the king of evil, its understable that people would have a hatred of them.

Moblins representing Jews seems to be supported by the greed, pig-irony and Nazi leanings in the rest of the game. It's not a huge leap to make.

Nope; they're inept and foolish. They lack the one great trait of Gorons - strength - and instead attempt actions but have no real consequence.

When?
In MM then elder is often refered to as wise and he knows that somethign is up at Snowhead, and all the gorons tell of how he was a great hero, and when you use his spirit in the form of the mask you see his great strength with his attacks.

The Elder is the old man who tries to walk through the snow and gets frozen solid. Tell me how that isn't foolish.

In TP Darbus is strong enough to break through the wall of solid rock to uncover the hidden village. And you need to wear extremely heavy Iron Boots to even stand a chance in sumo wrestling with them.

Again, Darbus isn't an elder, and he certainly isn't wise. He tries to use the Fused Shadow, which warps his soul, and he's a bit dim in all other respects. Definitely a bit of a meat head.

They only reach out to society once Link has already broken their borders and destroyed their sovreignity of their own lands; these actions are never shown as reprehensible, and Link is never punished for them.

If you read what the human and gorons say, they say that they had a good relationship with eachother until a short while before Link came, when the gorons shut them out. Link then came and saved the day, and this returned their companionship between man and goron.

Or you look at it the other way, and Link suppressed the Goron's attempts at independence and force them to integrate with a culture where they're subjected. Gorons in TP are very rarely at the forefront of things in human society; they're a bit "out of sight, out of mind" if you get what I mean.

...
And the race of the lead character isn't the point; the world he's portrayed in is white-dominated, run for and by white people.

But where are the other ethnicities? It can't be racist if only one race is present. Saying that the monsters represent other ethnicities is just a feeble attempt at making connections that aren't there.

The monsters are killed just because they're monsters, even though they're intelligent. That seems racist to me.
And like I said, the Gerudo! And as has been pointed out to me, Gorons are portrayed in a negative light, as are the Zora (they are forced into servitude of the Royal Family, but have no power of governance over Hyrule as a whole).

EDIT: Tingle is undeniably a Jewish caraciture: he has a large nose, dark hair, and loves money. He's also shown to be a bloody pain in the arse. Go on, say that's not racist.

[शेफाली]

शेफाली

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

Tingle is undeniably a Jewish caraciture: he has a large nose, dark hair, and loves money. He's also shown to be a bloody pain in the arse. Go on, say that's not racist.

I've never made any of those connections with Tingle. It's only racist if you have a racist mind.

[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

Tingle is undeniably a Jewish caraciture: he has a large nose, dark hair, and loves money. He's also shown to be a bloody pain in the arse. Go on, say that's not racist.

I've never made any of those connections with Tingle. It's only racist if you have a racist mind.

It's only racist if you recognise the stereotypes he portrays.

It's got nothing to do with being racist: if you're aware of the stereotypes, see how the character reflects those stereotypes, then it's clear as an interpretation.

[Moldrill]

Moldrill

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

Where do moblins write?

Well in the first game at least one of them can talk "its a secret to everybody". And in WW one of the moblins formed a relationship with that rich girl on some island or another. He wrote her a letter I believe. But honestly, you're just overthinking it Pyru.

[SlimmyG]

SlimmyG

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

With no men to fight, the women must. They make sacrifices.

so? how does that make them more liekly to be islamic then amazonian?

It doesn't have to be historically accurate; there are robot eye things that fire laser beams, last I checked, King Arthur didn't fight one of those.

I didnt say it had to be historically accurate, i said it took inspiration from there. And as its a fantasty game, why the hell shouldnt there be laserbeameyerobot thing?

Moblins representing Jews seems to be supported by the greed, pig-irony and Nazi leanings in the rest of the game. It's not a huge leap to make.

For this to stand it need to be already assumed that it IS a Nazi game, it doesnt stand on its own as an arguement. So you cant use it as a premise.

The Elder is the old man who tries to walk through the snow and gets frozen solid. Tell me how that isn't foolish.

He had no choice as Darmani hadnt returned. Desperate times, desperate measures, not matter how wise you are.

Again, Darbus isn't an elder, and he certainly isn't wise. He tries to use the Fused Shadow, which warps his soul, and he's a bit dim in all other respects. Definitely a bit of a meat head.

I never said that Darbus was clever, i said he was strong, a great warrior, i reply to an earlier point.

Or you look at it the other way, and Link suppressed the Goron's attempts at independence and force them to integrate with a culture where they're subjected. Gorons in TP are very rarely at the forefront of things in human society; they're a bit "out of sight, out of mind" if you get what I mean.

No; they were intergrated before Link ever left Ordon. So Link didnt supress them in any way.

The monsters are killed just because they're monsters, even though they're intelligent. That seems racist to me.

Theyre killed because they attack and kill the people of hyrule: In Wind Waker they help imprision the people kidnapped by the giant bird. In aLTTP,LoZ,Aol they are soldiers of Ganon. In LA they randomly attack Link without provocation. THAT is why theyre hated.

And like I said, the Gerudo! And as has been pointed out to me, Gorons are portrayed in a negative light, as are the Zora (they are forced into servitude of the Royal Family, but have no power of governance over Hyrule as a whole).

Gorons arent portrayed in any more of a negative light then Hylians: Both need Link to save them.
As for the Zora, in OoT it more seems that they are Allies to the Hylian royal family then servants, and even if they are they appear to be treated no worse then regular hylians, the ones that live in the market town.

Art by Kyuumu, banner by me
Screw this, im off to Hogwarts...

[Kyubi]

Kyubi

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

and metriod can be interperated as feminist.

It... is? The fact that you have a woman who works, provides herself with a living, stands up for what she believes in, wears what she wants to, takes on a male-dominated role in society without sacrificing her femininity, and never betrays her identity is definitely feminist.

Honestly, people, would anybody here want a black link.(Zelda:Oakland?)

I would love to have a black Link. It'd make things more interesting.

And the race of the lead character isn't the point; the world he's portrayed in is white-dominated, run for and by white people.

The poop thing could be said to be representative of how God wants to remind them they are always 'disgusting' and 'unclean'? See how this can be done? It's clearly !@#$% (lol poop, !@#$%) but it proves the point that things can easily be made to seem racist.

God isn't real, and evolution is colourblind; no racism exists.

OLO LOOK AT MY ADAMANT ATHEISM CUZ I'M AN INTERNET TOUGH-GUY. No racism exists? Please, GTFO.

I'm sick of !@#$% like this topic, because it always ends up with a massive debate over nothing. THERE'S NOT ENOUGH BLACK PEOPLE O NOEZ IT'S RACIST. It's a medieval-esque, possibly French-inspired game. Cocoroco is French for cockadoodledoo, and in Kakariko- note the similar name, its defining feature is all the Cuccos (read: chickens). The architecture of Hyrule castle is notably medieval French-inspired too. If you go back to the Middle Ages, and go to France, let's say it's the 1100's- I bet hardly anyone will have even seen a black man. Plus black people would like kinda out of place in Hyrule Town, anyway.

Aside from that, Zelda is pure fiction- stop trying to associate it with aspects of real life. Sure, it has humans in it, and it may certain aspects of it will have been inspired by real-world things, but since it's a fictional land with fictional races with fictional mythology and history, it's just stupid trying to come up with a clever interpretation of it. Sure, why not interpret games if you can interpret movies and books and poetry? You can. But a game like Zelda is so far withdrawn from the real world, when compared with something like MGS3, most interpretations like yours are just going to look stupid. Plus, the whole "THIS COULD BE RACIST/FASCIST" thing is so overdone now. Come up with something original. It's like trying to interpret The Fox and The Hound as Islamo-Fascist propaganda.

Gannon-banned brother.

[SlimmyG]

SlimmyG

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

The architecture of Hyrule castle is notably medieval French-inspired too. If you go back to the Middle Ages, and go to France, let's say it's the 1100's- I bet hardly anyone will have even seen a black man. Plus black people would like kinda out of place in Hyrule Town, anyway.

Made that point earlier...

Art by Kyuumu, banner by me
Screw this, im off to Hogwarts...

[Giverny]

Giverny

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

The poop thing could be said to be representative of how God wants to remind them they are always 'disgusting' and 'unclean'? See how this can be done? It's clearly Awesomeness (lol poop, Awesomeness) but it proves the point that things can easily be made to seem racist.

God isn't real, and evolution is colourblind; no racism exists.

If your saying racism in itself is pointless, I agree.

Who the !@#$% edited my post?!

^THEG_iv^er_ny_PROJECT

~LynkW-Surrender Global

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[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: Is Zelda a Nazi game series?

Where do moblins write?

Well in the first game at least one of them can talk "its a secret to everybody". And in WW one of the moblins formed a relationship with that rich girl on some island or another. He wrote her a letter I believe. But honestly, you're just overthinking it Pyru.

That's the point; I'm purposely overthinking it. Christ, how do people not get that? It's like you're only reading every other word.

With no men to fight, the women must. They make sacrifices.

so? how does that make them more liekly to be islamic then amazonian?

Racial appearance, weapons, where they live, their flags, the horses they ride, the fact that they (apparently) use bows and arrows.

It doesn't have to be historically accurate; there are robot eye things that fire laser beams, last I checked, King Arthur didn't fight one of those.

I didnt say it had to be historically accurate, i said it took inspiration from there. And as its a fantasty game, why the hell shouldnt there be laserbeameyerobot thing?

It's a fantasy game, why can't it have black people being portrayed as equal members of a Medieval society?

Moblins representing Jews seems to be supported by the greed, pig-irony and Nazi leanings in the rest of the game. It's not a huge leap to make.

For this to stand it need to be already assumed that it IS a Nazi game, it doesnt stand on its own as an arguement. So you cant use it as a premise.

The assumption is supported by the previous points of a) Large number of positively portrayed Aryans and b) the use of the world "realm". For the sake of the argument, make the assumption, k?

The Elder is the old man who tries to walk through the snow and gets frozen solid. Tell me how that isn't foolish.

He had no choice as Darmani hadnt returned. Desperate times, desperate measures, not matter how wise you are.

He's physically weak and he should've known that. Stronger gorons, who can walk and run faster, as well as roll, would have been more capable of the journey, and should've been sent in his stead. His arrogance to believe he was still capable of the journey shows his lack of intelligence.

Again, Darbus isn't an elder, and he certainly isn't wise. He tries to use the Fused Shadow, which warps his soul, and he's a bit dim in all other respects. Definitely a bit of a meat head.

I never said that Darbus was clever, i said he was strong, a great warrior, i reply to an earlier point.

And my point was that Gorons were either strong and dumb or slightly smarter and very weak, something that's yet to be shown as particularly false.

Or you look at it the other way, and Link suppressed the Goron's attempts at independence and force them to integrate with a culture where they're subjected. Gorons in TP are very rarely at the forefront of things in human society; they're a bit "out of sight, out of mind" if you get what I mean.

No; they were intergrated before Link ever left Ordon. So Link didnt supress them in any way.

They chose to leave that society, so it seems they weren't as integrated as you think.

The monsters are killed just because they're monsters, even though they're intelligent. That seems racist to me.

Theyre killed because they attack and kill the people of hyrule: In Wind Waker they help imprision the people kidnapped by the giant bird. In aLTTP,LoZ,Aol they are soldiers of Ganon. In LA they randomly attack Link without provocation. THAT is why theyre hated.

They attack Link because he's a Hylian with a sword. What if Link wasn't the first to attack them? What if other Hylians started it?

And like I said, the Gerudo! And as has been pointed out to me, Gorons are portrayed in a negative light, as are the Zora (they are forced into servitude of the Royal Family, but have no power of governance over Hyrule as a whole).

Gorons arent portrayed in any more of a negative light then Hylians: Both need Link to save them.
As for the Zora, in OoT it more seems that they are Allies to the Hylian royal family then servants, and even if they are they appear to be treated no worse then regular hylians, the ones that live in the market town.

For allies, no great pains are made by Link to save them from being frozen... two Zoras are saved in OoT. None of the others. Every one else is saved without exception, but the attitude with the Zora is just "Oh well, nothing more can be done."

OLO LOOK AT MY ADAMANT ATHEISM CUZ I'M AN INTERNET TOUGH-GUY. No racism exists? Please, GTFO.

No racism exists in poop. Jesus Christ, I thought people on this forum were intelligent enough so that I wouldn't have to explain every single little thing to them. Clearly I'm wrong.

I'm sick of !@#$% like this topic, because it always ends up with a massive debate over nothing.

Stop posting then. That's what I hate about this forum: people feel a need to post and !@#$% when they've got nothing to say. Shove off.

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH BLACK PEOPLE O NOEZ IT'S RACIST. It's a medieval-esque, possibly French-inspired game.

The swords and shields seem more Germanic than French, but there's not a lot in it.

Cocoroco is French for cockadoodledoo, and in Kakariko- note the similar name, its defining feature is all the Cuccos (read: chickens). The architecture of Hyrule castle is notably medieval French-inspired too. If you go back to the Middle Ages, and go to France, let's say it's the 1100's- I bet hardly anyone will have even seen a black man. Plus black people would like kinda out of place in Hyrule Town, anyway.

What do you mean black people would look out of place? Racist!
Anyways, in the 1100's, Middle Eastern people probably would've been relatively unknown too, but they're in the game.

Aside from that, Zelda is pure fiction- stop trying to associate it with aspects of real life.

That's the entire point of the topic! DEBATING AN INTERPRETATION OF THE GAME. You must consider that the writers of the game are real people from the real world and so must to an extent be affected and influenced by real things; an interpretation is that they were influenced by Nazism.

I'm going to ignore the rest of what you had to say because it had nothing to do with anything at all.

The poop thing could be said to be representative of how God wants to remind them they are always 'disgusting' and 'unclean'? See how this can be done? It's clearly Awesomeness (lol poop, Awesomeness) but it proves the point that things can easily be made to seem racist.

God isn't real, and evolution is colourblind; no racism exists.

If your saying racism in itself is !@#$%, I agree.

Yes, and I'm also saying that !@#$% in itself isn't racist.